Monorails...

Burlesque beauties, pinup girls, vintage fashion, swanky suits, go-go boots, hairdoos,
cocktails, recipes, dancing, nostalgia and random retro lifestyle that a Space Age Atomic Age Bachelor might need to know about. Post War movies, television, broadway shows, music... exotica, lounge, cocktail, vocals, standards, space-age, swing, tiki, Modern Transportation, 1950s 1960s classic cars, monorails, scooters, trailers and trains, oh my...

Moderators: I_LUV_POWER!!!!, Joe, moderns-r-us, Tony, Futura Girl, sean, nichols, Java, Matt Deckard

User avatar
tikiyaki
Special Secret Modern Agent
Posts: 563
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2004 1:35 pm
Location: EXOTICA ROCK CITY - SoCal
Contact:

Monorails...

Postby tikiyaki » Wed Feb 09, 2005 8:41 am

Don't know if this applies in this forum, but I'll ask anyway...

Having been born in the early 60's, I remember the World's Fair and the Monorail being touted as the future of mass transit. Does anyone know why the monorail has not been implemented more than it has ? Very quiet, energy efficient, and pretty damn cool to look at. Seems like it would be a great source of mass transit for urban areas like LA, Chicago, etc.

Discuss....

User avatar
moderns-r-us
Lotta Living Host
Lotta Living Host
Posts: 1836
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 6:16 pm
Location: Kansas City
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Postby moderns-r-us » Wed Feb 09, 2005 12:50 pm

My guess is that it is cost of the elevated track and thus elevated stations that has prevented this from being more widely implemented. Kansas City was looking at an option for a between the opposing lanes solution for a two track commuter system and I read that this would never happen due to the cost of constructing the elevated stations over the highway.

Even Disney has abandon this concept for bus service to the newer outter venues in Florida.

User avatar
SDR
Lotta Living FANatic
Posts: 4783
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 8:11 pm
Location: San Francisco
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Postby SDR » Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:20 pm

A "Search" for Monorail will reveal some previous discussion of this topic, in several different locations. . .

SDR
"I laugh in the face of danger! Then I hide until it goes away." Bender

User avatar
Joe
Lotta Living Host
Lotta Living Host
Posts: 4624
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2002 10:10 am
Location: sunny Eugene, Oregon
Contact:

Postby Joe » Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:27 pm

Such transportation has failed in the western US because of the lack of density in the urban areas and the development trends of suburbs over the last 60 years. Also, with the development of the car culture, most folks in the west prefer personal transportation.

The cost of laying track is astronomically expensive, compared to highways. With taxpayer subsidy, it cost about $25 per ride on the Portland Max, compared to about a $3 per ride subsidy to finance bus systems.

This is a huge political issue, tied to urban growth restrictions (which jack up house prices), as city planners still envision of removing everyone from their cars and forcing them onto a train. The only way they will achieve this desired density to properly finance rail systems is to redevelop areas the one we like: 1950s neighborhoods. The plan is to promote tearing down single level homes, subdividing the lot, and build two second story homes, destroying the character of the neighborhood. It's on the way. It's happening in the Bay Area and Portland.

JAB
Special Secret Modern Agent
Posts: 545
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2002 7:31 am
Location: Downtown LA / South OC
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Postby JAB » Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:06 pm

moders-r-us & Joe nailed it. It's very expensive to build any system let alone a monorail above grade. However, there have been so many grade crossing accidents along the Blue Line and the Metro Link in the greater LA area that I wonder if the law suits paid out don't make the initial expense worth it.

User avatar
SDR
Lotta Living FANatic
Posts: 4783
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 8:11 pm
Location: San Francisco
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Postby SDR » Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:43 pm

I believe I recently heard that grade-crossing fatalities in the US occur at the rate of one a day. . .part of a story on the recent SoCal quasi-suicide/accident.

I think Joe was speaking of the electrified-bus alternative to light rail. I'm not familiar with new dedicated-right-of-way electric buses. In San Francisco, there are numerous electric-bus routes as well as diesel bus lines, operated by the same utility and often using the same streets. The electric buses occupy the streets in the same way that the diesel buses do, but are almost silent. There are also long-established electric light-rail routes through the city; major extensions to these lines have been built (long the Embarcadero waterfront) and under construction (the 3rd Street corridor, south of downdown).

I would be interested to hear of alternatives to the existing modes of urban transit. Other than the glamor factor, the elimination of grade crossings, the possibility of higher vehicle speeds (?) and the feasibility of building even where normal rail rights-of-way are not available, monorails seem to offer little advantage over grade rail (?), and are undoubtedly more expensive to build. The extensive BART light-rail system, serving much of the Bay Area, has a number of elevated sections (including stations), which are structurally comparable to monorail lines, but do not have to have unique vehicles to run on them. (For some reason, the BART system was built to a non-standard "guage" [track width]; there is therefore no interface with other rail systems in the region. Voters recently refused a bond issue which would have made possible a strengthening of the trans-bay BART tunnel, an action called for by seismic engineers.

SDR
"I laugh in the face of danger! Then I hide until it goes away." Bender

User avatar
I_LUV_POWER!!!!
Lotta Living Host
Lotta Living Host
Posts: 810
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2002 7:47 am
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Postby I_LUV_POWER!!!! » Thu Feb 10, 2005 8:02 am

An extensive monorail system has been approved by voters in Seattle many times, but various businesses have been trying (unsuccessfully) to stop it. However, the plan has suffered major delays.

Cities around the world are either planning or building monorails. One is having soft openings in Moscow. Kazakstan and Ho Chi Minh City are planning them. For more information on them, and pix, go to monorails.org and click on News Briefs.

Here's what futurist Syd Mead had to say about monorails in Outre magazine (#20) (published in 2000):
Q: Do you think monorails will be used extensively in cities?

MEAD: Not any time soon. It's so scaled up in terms of contracting, the people involved, and the politics. Look how long it took to build the Century Freeway [laughs]. By the time they got around to finishing it, it cost at least ten times the original budget. Mass transit is an interesting idea because it's very efficient. You get only one driver for every couple hundred people. But you cannot go shopping on the bus because you have no way to get all that stuff home again. You've got to have a link-up with a delivery service or something like that. The genius of the private automobile is you can make your own itinerary, and you pay a penalty with traffic jams and so forth, but it just wins hands-down over every other form, only because you can get stuff and have it when you want it. . . .

User avatar
moderns-r-us
Lotta Living Host
Lotta Living Host
Posts: 1836
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 6:16 pm
Location: Kansas City
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Postby moderns-r-us » Thu Feb 10, 2005 12:19 pm

Ah Yes,

STUFF!

George Carlin would be proud.

User avatar
Matt Deckard
Lotta Living Host
Lotta Living Host
Posts: 203
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 6:25 pm
Location: A devout capitalist in Rosemead CA.
Contact:

Postby Matt Deckard » Tue Mar 29, 2005 1:30 am

Just saw the new Monorail in vegas and it was pretty cool. From what Futuragirl has told me it is going to be very key to connecting the city and keeping down future traffic. A giant sliding bulliten board 'vertyrail' above everyones heads.
http://www.lvmonorail.com/

I don't know if the monorail is more efficient or less efficient than the traditional mass transit rail systems used in other cities, though it does have a cool futurist style.

a bit off topic, I am a bit miffed that The current LA red, blue, gold line system was implemented in such a fractured form with trains going to places which are of little service to the general public.

I think they should have centered the system at LAX as their central hub and branching it out to the major points of interest like Disneyland, LA Pasadena and so forth.

Image
Last edited by Matt Deckard on Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Looking for my Emma Peel.

END OF LINE.
www.mattdeckard.com

CapitalMod
Modern Master
Posts: 237
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 4:17 pm
Location: Washington, DC
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Postby CapitalMod » Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:45 am


User avatar
I_LUV_POWER!!!!
Lotta Living Host
Lotta Living Host
Posts: 810
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2002 7:47 am
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Postby I_LUV_POWER!!!! » Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:03 am


User avatar
SDR
Lotta Living FANatic
Posts: 4783
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 8:11 pm
Location: San Francisco
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Postby SDR » Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:07 am

"I laugh in the face of danger! Then I hide until it goes away." Bender

CapitalMod
Modern Master
Posts: 237
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 4:17 pm
Location: Washington, DC
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Postby CapitalMod » Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:23 am

I think so SDR, although I am no expert. People who lived next to Els always claim to never notice the sound after a while. And that is on old tracks.

User avatar
moderns-r-us
Lotta Living Host
Lotta Living Host
Posts: 1836
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 6:16 pm
Location: Kansas City
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Postby moderns-r-us » Tue Mar 29, 2005 11:17 am


User avatar
SDR
Lotta Living FANatic
Posts: 4783
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 8:11 pm
Location: San Francisco
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Postby SDR » Tue Mar 29, 2005 11:57 am

"I laugh in the face of danger! Then I hide until it goes away." Bender

User avatar
moderns-r-us
Lotta Living Host
Lotta Living Host
Posts: 1836
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 6:16 pm
Location: Kansas City
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Postby moderns-r-us » Tue Mar 29, 2005 12:03 pm


User avatar
Matt Deckard
Lotta Living Host
Lotta Living Host
Posts: 203
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 6:25 pm
Location: A devout capitalist in Rosemead CA.
Contact:

Postby Matt Deckard » Wed Mar 30, 2005 7:40 am

Looking for my Emma Peel.



END OF LINE.

www.mattdeckard.com

modfan
Space Cadet (over 2001 posts)
Posts: 2091
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2003 8:28 am
Location: East of Balboa Highlands in Sylmar
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Plesset posted:

Postby modfan » Wed Mar 30, 2005 7:47 am


User avatar
SDR
Lotta Living FANatic
Posts: 4783
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 8:11 pm
Location: San Francisco
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Postby SDR » Wed Mar 30, 2005 11:15 am

The same problem plagued the planners who wanted, very naturally, to see the BART system here go directly to the airport. A "compromise" was finally reached, involving a driverless shuttle train. A stench of corruption surrounds this issue, here and, I presume, elsewhere; lobbyists representing the existing transportation options -- shuttle busses, taxis, etc -- are believed to have thrown the monkey wrenches that resulted in protracted delay and the ultimate less-than-ideal system "improvement" which was finally implemented.

Matt: "droll"?

SDR
"I laugh in the face of danger! Then I hide until it goes away." Bender

User avatar
Matt Deckard
Lotta Living Host
Lotta Living Host
Posts: 203
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 6:25 pm
Location: A devout capitalist in Rosemead CA.
Contact:

Postby Matt Deckard » Wed Mar 30, 2005 11:36 am

Looking for my Emma Peel.



END OF LINE.

www.mattdeckard.com

User avatar
SDR
Lotta Living FANatic
Posts: 4783
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 8:11 pm
Location: San Francisco
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Postby SDR » Wed Mar 30, 2005 11:51 am

"I laugh in the face of danger! Then I hide until it goes away." Bender

CapitalMod
Modern Master
Posts: 237
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 4:17 pm
Location: Washington, DC
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Postby CapitalMod » Wed Mar 30, 2005 12:57 pm


User avatar
SDR
Lotta Living FANatic
Posts: 4783
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 8:11 pm
Location: San Francisco
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Postby SDR » Wed Mar 30, 2005 5:09 pm

"I laugh in the face of danger! Then I hide until it goes away." Bender

keleshg
Modern Groupie
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 7:05 pm
Location: Orlando
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Monorail

Postby keleshg » Thu Mar 31, 2005 7:26 pm


gfmcginnis
Modern Groupie
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 9:51 pm
Location: Glendale, CA
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Monorail

Postby gfmcginnis » Wed Apr 06, 2005 8:45 pm

Hi All,
The Monorail concept has been around since the 1800's. Why have dual rails been more popular with engineers and city developers? Could it be the simple switch which moves an inch for changes of direction? Or could it be the inherent stability that dual rails provide?

The monorail's dozens of wheels along side the beamway provide the mechanical stability. Not unlike the one legged man with his crutches -- mechanical stability is a solution for him if he wants to approximate normal walking.

The reverse seems to be true for monorails. The visual impression of monorails is "flying". By swallowing the beamway as it glides along, the monorail seems to approximate flying. At least Disney's miniature monorails with their Learjet nose strikes me that way. I have to believe this characteristic was what awakened much of the interest in monorails from the 50's on.

Cities will build monorails, but if they listen to their engineers, more intently than to the developers, monorails will continue to be novelty that they are.

George McGinnis
Glendale, CA

User avatar
I_LUV_POWER!!!!
Lotta Living Host
Lotta Living Host
Posts: 810
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2002 7:47 am
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Welcome George McGinnis

Postby I_LUV_POWER!!!! » Sat Apr 09, 2005 5:01 pm

Thank you, George, for your insights, and welcome to the group!

To my knowledge, George is the second Imagineer to join LottaLiving. Many of you are probably familiar with him, as his work has been discussed here before. And all of you know his acomplishments: he worked on the Progress City model for Carousel of Progress, Walt Disney's dream city EPCOT, the Mighty Microscope from Journey thru Inner Space, Flight to the Moon, monorail and PeopleMover cars for Walt Disney World, Space Mountain, and he supervised the Horizons pavilion at Epcot (the theme park).

George recently wrote a series of articles about Horizons at MousePlanet.com.

Thanks again for joining us.

User avatar
I_LUV_POWER!!!!
Lotta Living Host
Lotta Living Host
Posts: 810
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2002 7:47 am
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Postby I_LUV_POWER!!!! » Sat Apr 09, 2005 5:07 pm

Oh yes, and George also worked on facsimile Red Cars for the Disney-MGM Studios, which would have take people up Hollywood Blvd. However, the design was never implemented.

User avatar
I_LUV_POWER!!!!
Lotta Living Host
Lotta Living Host
Posts: 810
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2002 7:47 am
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Postby I_LUV_POWER!!!! » Sun Apr 17, 2005 3:20 pm

Here's an interesting site about the history of mass transit in L.A. and unrealized plans (including monorails). George McGinnis recently posted this link at another board (ProgressCity@YahooGroups.com).

http://www.scsra.org/library/rapid-transit-history/

User avatar
I_LUV_POWER!!!!
Lotta Living Host
Lotta Living Host
Posts: 810
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2002 7:47 am
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Monorails and today's election

Postby I_LUV_POWER!!!! » Tue Nov 08, 2005 3:20 pm


User avatar
roxy500
Modern Master
Posts: 400
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2005 12:33 pm
Location: Seattle, WA
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Postby roxy500 » Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:25 pm

Looks like all of our votes for the monorail over the years just didn't pan out...



[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Return to “Everything Else and the Kitchen Sink”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest