Main Beam cut in half H E L P !

Home improvement Q&A, pictures and news fro Mid Century Modern Homes and Houses(NOT for Real Estate)

Moderators: I_LUV_POWER!!!!, Joe, Adriene, moderns-r-us, Tony, Futura Girl, nichols, Java

oregon'68
Modern Groupie
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 6:53 pm
Location: grants pass oregon
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Main Beam cut in half H E L P !

Postby oregon'68 » Sat Aug 04, 2007 7:01 pm

Today I started removing a Giant fireplace,kitchen cabinets ugly mess.after dismantling the chimney from the roof,I can see that my Center roof beam has a section about 6" missing from it.My first question is On a house like mine with a vaulted ceiling (1968 what I consider a mid-century modern design) is the center beam a load bearing beam or are the 2 side beams t he load bearing beams ? Photos below :
Last edited by oregon'68 on Sat Aug 04, 2007 7:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

oregon'68
Modern Groupie
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 6:53 pm
Location: grants pass oregon
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

roof beam pics

Postby oregon'68 » Sat Aug 04, 2007 7:24 pm


oregon'68
Modern Groupie
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 6:53 pm
Location: grants pass oregon
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Pics

Postby oregon'68 » Sat Aug 04, 2007 7:25 pm


oregon'68
Modern Groupie
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 6:53 pm
Location: grants pass oregon
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

what I am removing :

Postby oregon'68 » Sat Aug 04, 2007 7:29 pm


egads
Mondo Lounge Lizard
Posts: 1671
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 8:25 pm
Location: Long Beach CA
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Postby egads » Sat Aug 04, 2007 8:46 pm

You just decided to tear out a fireplace and did not expect issues? What does your architect or engineer have to say? Don't have either? And you just decided to tear out a fireplace......

oregon'68
Modern Groupie
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 6:53 pm
Location: grants pass oregon
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

fireplace

Postby oregon'68 » Sat Aug 04, 2007 9:23 pm

The fireplace is not original to the house and is an eyesore and takes up way to much space,I had no reason to believe the beam did not go all the way thru,I have no idea why it doesn't.And yes when working on anything old,I always expect issues...........

egads
Mondo Lounge Lizard
Posts: 1671
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 8:25 pm
Location: Long Beach CA
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Postby egads » Sat Aug 04, 2007 10:02 pm

Sorry, I know I don't end up sounding very funny. But a picture of the cut beam is missing. Knowing where and how it was cut would help. Perhaps there was a post where the fireplace is now. I have one in the middle of my great room.

User avatar
Futura Girl
Lotta Living Hostess
Lotta Living Hostess
Posts: 4161
Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2002 11:54 pm
Location: Las VEGAS babay!
Contact:

Re: fireplace

Postby Futura Girl » Sat Aug 04, 2007 11:40 pm


domus48
Modern Socialite
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:47 am
Location: Houston, TX
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Postby domus48 » Sun Aug 05, 2007 3:14 am

Difficult to tell what is going on given the images posted. However, removal of a fireplace and chimney should not be executed without professional input (i.e. structural engineer and/or architect). Regardless as to if the chimney is original to the house, it's existing and may for that matter, not be properly engineering in the first place.

What you are undertaking should not under any circumstances be executed without proper review and due diligence. You're probably okay with the removal of "skin" in order to understand the underlying issues, but beyond that you should involve licensed practitioners.

I realize this is asking a lot but do you possess a house plan?

oregon'68
Modern Groupie
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 6:53 pm
Location: grants pass oregon
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

thanks Everyone !

Postby oregon'68 » Sun Aug 05, 2007 6:45 am

I really have determined the fireplace is not original to the house,but was added in 1974.Yes There might have been a pole before.The beam is in 2 peices and looks to be original,(the cut is perfect) could it be that the house was built with 2 beams rather than a more expensive single long beam ?
I dont have the blue-prints for the house,and Yes I thought it was a main load bearing beam,until I saw it was 2 pieces and had second thoughts (hopes)

oregon'68
Modern Groupie
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 6:53 pm
Location: grants pass oregon
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

pics

Postby oregon'68 » Sun Aug 05, 2007 7:13 am


domus48
Modern Socialite
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:47 am
Location: Houston, TX
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Postby domus48 » Sun Aug 05, 2007 8:10 am

Last word on this from me. Based on your last photograph -- and if I interpret the image correctly -- there is a vertical support embedded within the chimney structure which is acting as a support for the roof beam(s).

I would encourage you to seek professional experience before any further activity as there may be a very real need for temporary shoring.

User avatar
Stephen
Modern Guru
Posts: 1197
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 8:35 am
Location: Tustin, CA
Contact:

Postby Stephen » Sun Aug 05, 2007 8:30 am

I am almost 100% certain your roof will collapse if you remove the fireplace. Removal of the fireplace will leave the beam sections only support at one end. Even if they weren't bearing weight (thought I'm sure they are)....the weight of the beam alone would be unsupported.

Are the side beams unsupported with posts for the entire span? It appears that the main ridge beam is a 4x12 glue-lam. If it is....it's not unreasonable that it could support the entire span (if it weren't broken in two) over the whole length, which appears to be about 20-25ft.

One thing I don't know is what snow load requirements are for your area.

In any event, you need to consult an engineer with experience in your area ASAP. Post and Beam houses have very easy load calculations. But by nature of that virtue it also means the loads are concentrated and removing something important usually results in catastrophic failure.

Stephen Meade
Unless You Hate Puppies: www.homefreeoc.com

oregon'68
Modern Groupie
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 6:53 pm
Location: grants pass oregon
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

beams..

Postby oregon'68 » Sun Aug 05, 2007 11:02 am

Heres another pic of the bottom of the two beams,there is some metal channel on each bottom corner,I still cant tell if there is a pole under this or not,if so it is incased in cinder blocks.Yes the beams are glue-lam The larger beam is 26' the shorter one is 15'.I will get an engineer up here tomorrow if possible.What kind of engineer do I need ,structural ? http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb20 ... MG4899.jpg

User avatar
Stephen
Modern Guru
Posts: 1197
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 8:35 am
Location: Tustin, CA
Contact:

Re: beams..

Postby Stephen » Sun Aug 05, 2007 11:11 am


User avatar
Udo Min
Modern Master
Posts: 150
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:54 am
Location: Mission, Ks
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Postby Udo Min » Sun Aug 05, 2007 2:01 pm

Could always throw in a glass column:


Just joking:
Just thought it was a good plug in for these cool glass blocks:
http://www.glassian.org/Falconnier/index.html

Or that cool glass concrete block:
http://www.litracon.hu/

Should be able to hold up your split beam if engineered correctly.....
Eric

User avatar
rockland
Mondo Lounge Lizard
Posts: 1504
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:45 am
Location: wesley hills,NY
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Postby rockland » Sun Aug 05, 2007 6:02 pm

ooh.eew. what an ugly flintstone mess.
beautiful ceilings!
and i get the need to fix the fireplace oddity.
but that needs an engineer, structural.
should be shored up on both sides, easy really.
remove the mess after shoring up. but a plan needs
to be set before attempting anything. once a plan is set,
various outcomes, be it 'cut beam' etc. a solution is all
ready, 'ready!'. (need back-up support!!)
hope you have some one on the way!
the integrity of all structure depends on its surroundings.
but i still would have done the same thing...
tried to do it myself and found a oops.
we're here for ya! keep us posted.

User avatar
johnnyapollo
Special Secret Modern Agent
Posts: 632
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 7:28 pm
Location: Atlanta GA
Contact:

Postby johnnyapollo » Sun Aug 05, 2007 6:18 pm

You'll need to at least temp up the beams on either side and put something in the gap to prevent any longitudinal movement - that beam is essentially the ridge beam for the entire roof system - if you had to, you could probably remove the fireplace but that doesn't solve the immediate problem of what to do with the gap. I would be even more interested in seeing what's under the firelplace - whether the flooring extends under it or if it has some type of structural base (which would support the idea that another fireplace was there originally).

-- John
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."
Philip K. Dick

Desperately Seeking Modern
http://modernseeker.blogspot.com

User avatar
lasquirrel
Modern Master
Posts: 107
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 9:01 pm
Location: long beach RANCHOS
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

good luck

Postby lasquirrel » Sun Aug 05, 2007 6:59 pm

I showed my husband the pix (he's a struct. engineer) and he HIGHLY suggests that you put a support beam in. He isn't sure by the looks of your pictures but to be SAFE he'd put one in ASAP!!!!
Sheryl

modfan
Space Cadet (over 2001 posts)
Posts: 2091
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2003 8:28 am
Location: East of Balboa Highlands in Sylmar
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

I say get

Postby modfan » Sun Aug 05, 2007 8:43 pm

an applicable professional there quick.

You're lucky the roof hasn't fallen in on you.......yet.
Guess you got some angels watching over you.

User avatar
moderns-r-us
Lotta Living Host
Lotta Living Host
Posts: 1836
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 6:16 pm
Location: Kansas City
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Postby moderns-r-us » Mon Aug 06, 2007 10:23 am

My guess is that the beams were always two separate beams, and that they were designed to have some form of vertical support there originally, either fireplace or column. I would also speculate that the beams in question are not sufficiently sized to support the roof without that vertical support even if they had been continuous.

How is it that you know that this (or some other) fireplace was not there originally?

Is it possible that only the lower part of the fireplace was changed from the original and that the vertical chimney that you are seeing was always there? It all could have been refaced with the bad stone at that time.
"Better Living Through Modernism"

User avatar
Futura Girl
Lotta Living Hostess
Lotta Living Hostess
Posts: 4161
Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2002 11:54 pm
Location: Las VEGAS babay!
Contact:

Postby Futura Girl » Mon Aug 06, 2007 12:46 pm


User avatar
jesgord
Modern Master
Posts: 487
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2006 8:04 am
Location: New York
Contact:

Postby jesgord » Mon Aug 06, 2007 1:05 pm


User avatar
Udo Min
Modern Master
Posts: 150
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:54 am
Location: Mission, Ks
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Postby Udo Min » Mon Aug 06, 2007 3:33 pm

Similar condition here but chimney is off to one side..
But this fireplace takes up less a footprint but doesn't seem to hold up any major beams but does bisect a rafter.

Thought it might give some ideas if you wanted to keep a fireplace theme...

Image
Image
Image

I agree very much with lotta living host moderns-r-us & enjoy your ability to tackle a cool project that brings up lots of discussion...

Can't wait to see what happens next!

Eric

User avatar
lasquirrel
Modern Master
Posts: 107
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 9:01 pm
Location: long beach RANCHOS
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Postby lasquirrel » Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:35 am

Sheryl

oregon'68
Modern Groupie
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 6:53 pm
Location: grants pass oregon
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

fireplace

Postby oregon'68 » Wed Aug 08, 2007 3:58 pm


User avatar
Jkelley209
Modern Groupie
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2005 1:42 pm
Location: Woodland Hills, CA
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

It looks like the fireplace was there for a reason

Postby Jkelley209 » Wed Aug 08, 2007 7:04 pm


oregon'68
Modern Groupie
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 6:53 pm
Location: grants pass oregon
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

'68 oregon MCM

Postby oregon'68 » Wed Aug 08, 2007 7:13 pm


User avatar
kandersen
Modern Master
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2006 10:23 am
Location: Indianapolis
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Postby kandersen » Thu Aug 09, 2007 6:16 am


User avatar
Stephen
Modern Guru
Posts: 1197
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 8:35 am
Location: Tustin, CA
Contact:

Postby Stephen » Thu Aug 09, 2007 6:23 am



[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Return to “Mid Century Modern Houses and Homes”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests