Single vs double pane windows, real life pros and cons

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deagna
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Postby deagna » Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:55 am

No, the rusted points are on the outside and most of the windows need to be reset because the points have rusted or are just missing, but we just want to replace them instead.

When we redo the windows, there will be a lip that acts as a stop on the outside, but I want the removable, nailed in stop will be on the inside so we have a continuous board to the exterior. Is that not normal?

I designed a detail just like it for a church's stained glass, but they were installing storefront on the exterior side of them, so the stop had to be on the inside so they could remove the panes.

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Izzy
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Postby Izzy » Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:09 am

We have alum. windows on our house that are double pane from probably around the early 80s. They seem to have held up ok in our climate. most of the front facing ones that get all the heat are now failing. prolly not low-e or anything. We arethinking of just doing new alum. I think the new ones will be so much more efficient that the alum. in this climate won't be too much of a prob.
what do you all think about wood windows? not much discussion about it. i know theyre not typical mcm but i do have an affinity for them although they are more expensive. gotta love wood, paint it, stain it, sand it, paint it again...
i just can't bear the vinyl. anyone have a diffferent color vinyl that looks better than the "flip that house" white? (hey, its a new color name!)
I think, and this is an uneducated think, that new aluminum windows would hold up fine. although a window salesman will tell you different cuz they're all trying to hock (sp?) their vinyl.
and alum. and wood are recycelable and are not as destructive to the environ. to make.

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johnnyapollo
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Postby johnnyapollo » Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:21 am

"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."
Philip K. Dick

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googieagog
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Postby googieagog » Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:41 am


deagna
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Postby deagna » Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:51 am

I'll post a detail before we start work to make sure it'll work the way we want. We've never built windows before (as most people I imagine), but Cliff May windows look simple and we love that, so we'll keep it as simple as possible.

About those single-pane windows in California. Aren't they a serious security issue? They're just so easy to break and I know we've got a lot of rocks on our property.

(Security's obviously an issue for me)

egads
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Postby egads » Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:51 am

Points and glazing go on the outside for weather reasons. The glazing compound sheds water. One item you have not mentioned with regards to window replacement (in a Cliff May anyway) is tempering. The original windows are not tempered. This is a huge safety issue. One I'm facing.

deagna
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Postby deagna » Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:57 am

I'm sorry I'm so confusing. Our points are on the outside which is why they're rusted and I'm afraid some of the panes will fall out easily. We want to replace them all with double-pane insulated glass in an all new wood window assembly which would have stops instead of points.

I wouldn't think single-pane tempered glass would cost too much. Hey, you could just use acrylic panels like the previous home owners did in our house!

egads
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Postby egads » Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:07 am

Eww! The points are not supposed to show. There's supposed to be glazing compound over it. I have thought about deepening the rabbits in my existing windows & doors so that they can accept dual panes. Here in my 1954 Long Beach model, all the windows use glazing compound and the doors have 1/4 x 1/4 sticks.

deagna
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Postby deagna » Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:11 am

I think what was left of the glazing compound was original to the house. It was not in good shape. We added/replaced most of it, but we're mostly excited about having a more substantial barrier between us and Mr. Winter.

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Stephen
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Postby Stephen » Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:31 am

Stephen Meade
SoCal Realtor - DRE 01378749
Pacific West Assoc. of Realtors President-Elect
http://www.OCModHomes.com
http://www.CliffMaySocal.com
and
Cliff May Homeowner

deagna
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Postby deagna » Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:37 am


egads
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Postby egads » Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:54 am

This would be (and probably will be my) game plan:
Add new doors with dual paned tempered glass in a couple of places there are windows now. That will give me a couple of window unit to "bench work" The wood used to make our windows is not available much anymore. Restoration is a better idea unless they are very deteriorated. Here in the Long Beach Ranchos, original fabric is highly valued.

I would try to get some privacy going. I know it's cold and snowy where you are right now, but the whole idea of living in a cliff May is indoor/outdoor living. You must not let your fear cloud your enjoyment of life. For instance, you can light up your entire yard with tastefull uplights. Security lighting shouts, well security. How about some window bars while you are at it? :P

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Stephen
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Postby Stephen » Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:58 am

Stephen Meade

SoCal Realtor - DRE 01378749

Pacific West Assoc. of Realtors President-Elect

http://www.OCModHomes.com

http://www.CliffMaySocal.com

and

Cliff May Homeowner

deagna
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Postby deagna » Fri Feb 01, 2008 11:12 am


kjansma
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Postby kjansma » Fri Feb 01, 2008 11:22 am

scandimod mentioned the spacers between the panes. On the Milgard aluminum doors they sell here in Southern California the spacer appears to be aluminum with a perforated pattern. There may be something under it that the aluminum spacer is concealing. On the windows whatever is used as a spacer is covered with a thin white piece of something rubbery looking (I'm sure that's the technical term!) that is almost completely unnoticeable because it kind of reflects the aluminum. The windows we replaced were 4' high and 6' wide and are somewhat high off the ground and also have window coverings because they are in our daughters' bedrooms, which may be why I never even noticed the spacer. I had to go and look to see what you meant. This spring we may replace a 6' x 6' window, so the spacer may be more noticeable in that location, assuming they don't use the perforated aluminum spacer. If this conversation is still going on at that point, I'll let you know.

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Postby rockland » Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:09 pm

i've heard some homeowners with children use film. a safety issue. and claims that it helps with security as well.
watching an ice storm forming right now, and high winds expected, it could also help hold glass together if a tree
falls? anyone use this?
quote from the site...
How do 3Mâ„¢ Scotchtintâ„¢ Plus All Season (LE) Films work?

3Mâ„¢ Scotchtintâ„¢ Plus All Season Films, or Low E Films, work much in the same way as the Sun Control Films except that they offer an increased performance against cold weather heat loss. The patented construction of these films enables the metal coating to reflect more of the interior room heat back into the room where it is needed. This improves personal comfort by reducing drafts near windows, and can help save on fuel costs, especially in commercial buildings. The LE films are also protected with our abrasion resistant coating for long-term durability and maintained appearance.
http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/e ... ucts/FAQs/

i just can't believe it is invisible. (i think they claim 'near invisible')

no fencing in our neighborhood either. feels safer really. but larger lots. immediate neighbors can keep an eye on
each other. and we let each other know when we are away. though not perfect at times (long conversations in the
summer and hard to get stuff done outside) a little lack of privacy. but a small landscape wall planned with a new
exterior deck will give that area some privacy.
i'm not recommending this light but i think they could be hidden under the eaves of the back deck for a soft evening
glow? and a little security? (haven't really done extensive research yet)
http://www.solarlightstore.com/solar-sp ... t3pack.cfm
(shortly after we moved in and after a very rainy week we found a fresh cigarette in the back yard. creepy) a little soft light
would discourage that. just don't want the big glo-bombs.

best security. our big sissy dogs. and an invisible fence.
Last edited by rockland on Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

deagna
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Postby deagna » Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:12 pm

I remember seeing 3m clear film on that tv show where they break into people's houses to show them how unsafe they are. Thanks for the link. Very interesting.

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Izzy
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Postby Izzy » Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:24 pm

agreed, rockland. A big sissy dog with a good bark will keep most away.
Our black lab, reuben, (who by the way was the dog who fell off the washington state ferry a few years back; my hubby jumped over board to save him, i was 9 months pregnant) :x
anyways! reuben is all bark, no bite and most are a little sketched by him at the door but i've resigned myself to the fact that he keeps things safer.
The PO (previous owner) was a big wig firefighter and installed this crazy fire alarm/security system. We have no idea how to use the security but theres a big speaker on our garage that sounds off if you burn some toast (or chicken chimichangas :roll: ) and yells in a loud voice, "FIRE! GET OUT OF THE HOUSE! FIRE!" followed by my 3 year old crying and yelling to get out. needless to say, i think it works but man its obnoxious and a little embarassing.

deagna
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Postby deagna » Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:28 pm

That's hysterical! :D

That's like our previous owner who worked for an epoxy company epoxying over all of the bathroom tile and kitchen countertops!

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googieagog
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Postby googieagog » Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:35 am

These comments about privacy and security are interesting. In the west, walled/fenced yards are standard. Here in the midwest, especially in midcentury neighborhoods, they're rare and in many cases prohibited.

Privacy originally wasn't a problem on my block thanks to lot size and setbacks. Kids used to play across ajoining back yards that were like one big park. Now, with people adding to their houses up and out, privacy is a problem. The original covenant restrictions are gone so people are putting up more back yard fences and hedgerows. But front yard privacy fences/walls are prohibited by law pretty much across Illinois. Cops believe fenced front yards make it easier for burglars to work unseen.

We've had a few burglaries in my neighborhood over the years, including next door and across the street. My house is a fishbowl, which might actually protect it. I suspect burglars can see it's "weird" and "full of old crap" so they move on. (We also have good locks on doors and windows). Out west, where MCM is linked with affluence, I'm sure these houses are seen as juicer targets.

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Postby Seaside » Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:47 pm

We have one wireless camara hooked up to the network, and I'd like to get a few more now that they're cheaper. The big glass picture windows are great for getting a good view. :)

I have a side light near the front door that I'd really like to be safety coated - either a plexi cover or tempered, because it's a split entry and if someone took a tumble down the stairs, they'd go right through the window, making a bad situation much, much worse.

We made some air blocks by making some wooden frames with L-shaped trim wood, and coating it with that shrink film. They are pretty effective at stopping some of the draft. It's a good stop gap.

Some days I consider taking out the bottom foot of all the drywall, re-wiring, and adding insulation to the walls, as that's the real issue, but then I remember how much I hate drywalling.

Although I want to replace the aluminum single panes eventually, I dispair over replacing the huge picture window. Every suggestion I've got is UGLY. They want to break it up into 3 or 6 windows and they suggest some nice colonial bars.

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Izzy
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Postby Izzy » Fri Mar 07, 2008 6:51 am

those window salesman are the WORST! their sales pitch is like something from the 50's so in that respect they fit right in! we had one in our house for over 3 hours (for just an estimate) drawing pictures of our house with fake panes and shutters... we have about 10 windows and he gave us an intial quote of 30000 dollars! what a joke. then he said we were getting the inside deal (shhh dont tell, the manager will kill me) and said 21000. Bleh! what a ripoff! and that was for crappy white vinyl, not solid gold.
we're just going to do the front of the house one year and the back the next.. ourselves...wood windows or aluminum again.


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