in over my head?

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drsiebling
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in over my head?

Postby drsiebling » Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:08 am

I managed to scrape up quite a bit of free time for the first part of the year, so I decided to tackle a project I'd been wanting to do for quite some time. Yep, I'm stripping the paint off of my paneling. What a chore!
Image

Anyway, I've tried Citrus Strip, Soy Gel and now I'm using Vasco Stripper... All have their pluses and minuses, but the Vasco is clearly the superior product. I've only been working for a few hours, but the progress is great and I'm excited to see the wood that has been hidden for an untold number of years under the seven layers of paint that are peeling off.

Image

Image

So, does anyone have a clue as to what kind of wood this is? If you were doing what I'm doing, what would you do as far as stain is concerned?

[/img]

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Postby Joe » Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:04 am

is the paneling planks or plywood? If it's plywood, I would consider replacing it with with something close to the period like mahogany (luan) or birch.

if it's planks, I might consider living with painted paneling or replace.

how much square feet are you doing? how difficult was the area you show in the photos?

that looks like an awful job to take on. good luck

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Postby johnnyapollo » Thu Jan 14, 2010 5:26 am

Off-hand I'd say the material is fir (may be Douglas Fir depending on when the house was built), but it could be something else. Generally the pines have more knots and the redwoods have tighter grains. Since you're in Texas you may want to see which materials were most commonly used in your area (for instance, in Atlanta it's mostly Southern Yellow Pine and Cedar - with Douglas Fir becoming unavailable towards the early 70's as the supplies on the west coast started to get depleted).

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Postby drsiebling » Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:34 am

Joe: am I reading you right in that you'd not finish out this paneling under any circumstances? it's definitely not plywood - - looks like planks to me.

I think Johnny is on the right track - I compared my panels to some douglas fir photos online and it seems to be an exact match.

Why wouldn't you refinish those, Joe? The wood is in exceptional condition with no warping or discoloration...

Do either of you recommend a certain color of stain? i was thinking teak might look great...

Oh yes... it hasn't been too difficult to strip the paint. I've worked on it for about 3 hours as of the photos posted. I figure it will take me about 20 hours to do the whole wall to the left in the photo and another ten for the wall to the right of the door. Either way, it's something I have the time for and it doesn't cost me a thing to do. I managed to inherit a large amount of stripper when I bought the house, so it's all already paid for.

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Postby rockland » Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:56 pm

Looks like clear cedar to me. Tongue and groove?
Must be a hint somewhere if you loosen a trim board or locate
a non-painted or less painted area in a closet?
Someplace you can find a construction edge.
Cedar is soft so it doesn't like much scraping. My whole house is cedar
so i'm looking at it now. Do you have a plane scraper? It is a simple bar for finish work.
Not expensive but likes a sharp edge. Even a bit of sandpaper may release a smell.

The groove would be difficult to remove paint from mine, if it was painted.
Whatever it is i would plug ahead! I wouldn't worry about finish just yet.
Cedar is too soft for stain. (if it is cedar) I would just test a clear oil finish.
Your stripper is drying it out right now.

(tossing a good drink of water on a spot will give you a good idea of what
a linseed oil finish will look like). Wipe on a nice wet rag.

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Postby Joe » Thu Jan 14, 2010 5:11 pm

that just looks like a ton of work. time is money. your time has value. if you think you can do it, go for it. you might get estimates to replace and estimates to have someone else do the work. Add it all up and decide.

as for stain, probably something clear and natural, matte finish. I'd need to see the whole room and other woods involved too.

good luck

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Postby egads » Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:10 pm

If you have no work, time and stripper, go for it. However, keep in mind you could get work and have a half stripped room for awhile. I agree that a natural finish would probably be best. I even think a little left over paint in some spots is not the end of the world. It's honest history. The only way those walls will ever look perfect is to completely replace.

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Postby Slim and Gabby » Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:32 pm

I agree with Johnny, it looks like Douglas Fir; the grain is quite distinctive! I've seen a lot of this stuff, and it looks even more like it between the wet and dry, but I could be wrong. If you want to be period, go with shellac, it dries fast, really fast, um, 20 minutes, four or five on a hot day! Douglas Fir looks super boss with a colored stain, aqua, coral, light blue, even, um black, gulp! Go to the hardware store and get some scrap DF pieces, and try some colored stains on them. The trick is to get it thin enough to where it doesn't wash out the grain, but just gets soaked in. This can look stellar when done right!
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Postby rockland » Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:36 pm

And...if you are game to keep going, stick to just the one wall.
The 'strike zone', the area while standing with two feet on the ground,
is much easier than the high spots.

I just repaired, filled some rough spots, sanded, and waxed my original
cork entry...on my knees...during a holiday!. When most may have just
replaced it...

Any hesitation from anyone is the big project,( coming from experience), that may not end
up, after all the work, to be what you want. Cedar strips very clean. It doesn't have a grain
that 'holds' the paint like say oak. But the groove will be near impossible to get clean.
I think it is worth restoring. And you have the time.

Me?. I would replace it. Or live with the paint. But i'm old.
If i remember my early 30's, that wall would be stripped and perfect before you had a
chance to post this! and oiled beautifully.

Instead i bought an old beauty in original condition that creaks and moans just like me.
I'm happy to just keep it fed, oiled and running.

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Postby johnnyapollo » Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:26 pm

The trick on cleaning up the grooves is to make a couple of narrrow tools out of old blades - I like using bandsaw blades, but even a hacksaw blade will work. File the edges until the profile matches what you're scraping, then blunt the end so there's a bit of a wire-edge - that wire edge will take the paint right off (oh and wrap the other end in a wad of tape or something so it doesn't blister your hand). You can also purchase a lot of different profiles at specialty furniture refinishing stores - but since you're only doing this one job, I'd go for the make your own rather than spending the money.

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Postby drsiebling » Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:32 am


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Postby drsiebling » Sat Jan 30, 2010 12:35 am

So, the project continues...

One of my biggest frustrations with my house is that a previous owner back in the early nineties decided to sheetrock everything in sight. This guy literally covered up clerestory windows, paneling - you name it with this stuff. So, I've decided to start ripping it down piece by piece. Unfortunately, I came across this today:

Image

yep... this dude managed to cut out a chunk of the main beam in order to run some electrical cable that powers a shop light in the garage. Egads!

So, my question today is: Has this weakened the house? It's not a large channel, but it doesn't make me confident in what I'm going to find as more drywall comes down. Clearly, this guy understood that cutting the main beam was not a good idea, so he tacked in a piece of wood above the beam to remind himself not to saw through it:

Image

So. much like an Apollo 13 astronaut, he needed the constant reminder.

I've also given up on the stripping the paneling and have opted to yank it off the wall and flip it over. As it turns out, the paneling is 3/4" tongue and groove Douglas Fir.

Image

I've also decided to eliminate the paneling above the windows in favor of opening the space up and allowing more visible beam action. So that I don't make the mistake that Mr. Beam Cutter made, do you all think I'm safe in removing the horizontal stud that rides along below the main beam?

Image

Obviously, this seems to be nothing more than a stud for attaching the paneling, but better safe than sorry...

another frustration with the house lies in the previous owner's crazy decision to replace the original door moldings with this junk:

Image

Well, I decided to pry one of those suckers down and, what do you know? The old molding was underneath!

Image

Same story with the inappropriate baseboards:

Image

So, it's been a busy few weeks.... ultimately, I'm really liking the direction of the changes... just this next photo of a few paneling panels flipped over and the exposed beams and support post make me very excited!

Image

Oh yes, if anyone knows where I can sell a TON of 3/4 inch solid redwood and Douglas Fir paneling... I've got more than I'll ever need....

:)

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Postby johnnyapollo » Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:42 am

Comments in reverse order to your post:

It's cool that the original door casing trim was hidden under that crappy stuff - one question - it's hard to tell in the photo but did the PO sit the paneling on the floor moldings, then apply the new on top? If it's under there and you want to use the original, the only issue I see is with the flooring terminating away from it - you'll need to address that issue with some shoe molding or something similar. If it's gone you might be able to use a wider floor molding to cover the gap from the wall outwards via thickness. Or if this is on walls where you're flipping the paneling - you can just apply a molding of similar size but simpler in profile, just make sure it's thick enough to cover the voids.

You got lucky on the paneling - some of that stuff only has the groove on one face - when you flip it's basically flat on the other side - but then again that simplified look may be better for a modernist look. As for exposing the wall beams - as long as the load is transferred to a supporting member (which should all be beneath the beam) you shoudn't have a problem removing any face-nailed tubafors used to hold drywall - just be careful of anything that appears to sustain or transfer load. I'd say to go ahead and remove but if you're worried get a consult from a structural engineer.

Speaking of structural engineer - that might be the best consult for the modifications to the beams - that first image looks to be "notched" with a dado to provide access to the wire - I don't believe that's an issue (if you look at what's done to stuff to allow for plumbing you'll find that what you've got isn't severe. The second photo appears to show the beam load on a bricked wall? Building codes require an offset of any supporting material "x" distance to provide ledger support on a brick or block structural wall. It's not too asthetically pleasing but it should be OK structurally. In either case you might want to think about putting a metal plate over the wires where they go through the beams - you can find the plates in big box stores like Home Depot in the building and supply section (where all the joist hangers are) or sometimes in the electrical department. The plates are designed to prevent screws and nails from being driven into hidden wiring - it your case they should make it easier to hide the wiring with a little color matched paint. Just a suggestion. Or you can have plates of a similar thickness fabbed up at a good metal shop that's the exact width if there isn't something appropriate at the big box stores.

You're going to have to figure out a way to hide that wiring if it's below the level of the wall (with your idea of leaving the area above the horizontal "top" open) - may not be a problem if paneling is going back in. The other thing you ought to think about is noise - leaving that exposed will allow more sound to travel from room to room - may not matter in this case.

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Postby drsiebling » Sat Jan 30, 2010 11:18 am

Thanks so much for the reply.

Fortunately, the flooring does go completely under the old moulding in all but one case. I've got some smaller moulding to patch that area.

Sorry for the confusion on the cut beam. It's in a different part of the house from the main area where I'm removing paneling. There's no brick in either area, so it was probably just a confusing picture.

As far as the 2x4s are concerned, here's a better photo of the area in question:

Image

I'd like to remove the 2x4s that span this area, but want to be sure that I'm not going to cause any structural problems. I can't image it being a load bearing 2x4, but stranger things have happened!

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beams

Postby reverb2000 » Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:36 pm

load bearing beams do not run horizontal. Those 2x4s support the vert. beams for extra strength.

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Postby drsiebling » Sat Jan 30, 2010 8:19 pm

So, given the fact that they are loose in the frame, take them down or no?

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beam

Postby reverb2000 » Sun Jan 31, 2010 4:46 am

what is the size of that upper beam, it looks like a 2x6, which I cant imagine someone using as load bearing. Does the beam run perpendicular to the ceiling joist?
To the best of my uneducated opinion it appears those 2x4s are used for nothing more than attachement points for sheetrock. Especially if the happen to be exactly in measurements evenly divisable by 4.
Jeeze hope that makes sense.

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Postby reverb2000 » Sun Jan 31, 2010 5:08 am

http://www.houstonarchitecture.com/haif ... ntry297531

Ck this link out. I have a load bearing wall that the vert. supports are left in. Also see that panneling I have done. Its all 1/4 inch mahogany plywood, finished with shellac.

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Re: beam

Postby drsiebling » Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:35 am


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Postby drsiebling » Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:12 pm

Just thought I'd drop in and post a quick update...

lots of progress since this whole endeavor started to unfold.

Two weeks ago:

Image


Now:

Image

More to come!

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Postby bamalama » Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:33 pm

Just catching up with this thread, as I'm currently dithering over what to do with the painted paneling in my living room. drsiebling, your restoration looks marvelous!

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Postby drsiebling » Sat Jun 26, 2010 3:40 pm

Thanks!

It's been a slow process, unfortunately. What prompted this whole exercise was a large amount of hail damage to our roof thy caused various leaks around the house, damaging tons of the interior. We are six months into the process now - should be finished in a couple of weeks. What started small has morphed into a new white torchdown roof, replacing four beams, resurfacing every wall in the front half of the house, laying new floors (terrazzo), installing 15 new clerestory windows, gutting the kitchen... The list goes on. I've gone from being a complete novice to now being something of a skilled carpenter. I know my house now as though I designed it myself. It's been a wonderful process that has been extremel frustrating at times. All that paneling that started things off is completely gone now. I've uncovered a thousand linear feet of painted clear heart old growth redwood that I've now removed from the walls and reused around the house. Beautiful stuff that is practically worth its weight in gold, along with the doug fir that started the thread. I hope to post pics of the results in a few weeks... Hope being the operative word!

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Postby drsiebling » Tue Jun 29, 2010 6:27 am

Some interesting side notes about the house:

1. It's framed entirely in Douglas Fir - some of the studs still have the stamps on them. I can't imagine that Doug Fir framing was common in Dallas, but it sure makes for a strong house. The contractor who did my beam replacements commented that my house could withstand just about anything nature could throw at it. Pretty cool.

2. Every piece of exterior wood on the house is old growth clear heart redwood. Most of it has more than 30 grain lines per inch, which puts the wood's source as trees that were more than 500 years old. A damn shame that those beauties were ever cut down, but I'm not complaining about the beauty of the wood at all. Such a rich burgundy color! I've even got an entire wall that was made from redwood burl. It's stunning stuff!

3. The previous owner who remodeled and painted all the wood whilst adding bad sheetrock, silly beam boxes and inappropriate moulding was such a bad carpenter, that he simply covered up old architectural details without bothering to remove them. Thank god for that!

4. I managed to finally get ahold of the wife of my house's architect, Thomas Scott Dean. She remembered the house very well as it was a total frustration for him during the building process. The house was custom built for owners who constantly changed their minds about various details in the house. One of his final frustrations occurred when they instructed him to remove the clerestory windows out of fear that they would make the house too hot. In response to this, clerestories were removed and simply boarded up with leftover wood. These areas have been incredibly easy to restore, as I've just had to pry off this wood and, voila, perfect window openings ready to be filled! Such a shame that this ever happened - the house had a really cool clerestory element that was perfectly tuned to the home's solar positioning. We now experience incredible light during the day and evening and the house is never too hot or too cold.

5. I did manage to do something to the house that was out of tune with its intended design - - couldn't help myself. During the roofing process, I became convinced that the flat roof section on the back of the house was the perfect place for a large roof deck. Adding this during the roofing process allowed for a super cool roof hatch to be added and for a 15x10 deck to be constructed that floats above the roof and is flashed into the roof membrane. We also added a 50' walkway along the roof of the back of the house. it's an awesome place to watch stars and see the neighborhood from a new perspective. Bonus points for not being able to see it from the street!

6. my 57 year old slab foundation is in perfect condition. Not a crack to be found. I've been told now by several contractors that the portland cement used in the 50s was infinitely better in quality than what's used these days. In a state where foundation problems are the norm, This sucker is as stable as it gets.

7. Don't ever buy any Ryobi tools. They are terrible!

More to come...

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Postby classic form » Tue Jun 29, 2010 8:04 am

sounds like you are really making the place nice. do you have pics of the redwood? I'd love to see it.

The roof deck...what kind of hatch did they use, decking, details/pics on this for us? I'm having my roof done and would love to see what you have done here.

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Postby Joe » Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:21 am

Thomas Scott Dean was well published back in the day. saw several examples of his work in old copies of House & Home

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Postby drsiebling » Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:04 am

Roof Deck.

So, when the roof was being installed, curbs were built onto the surface and then covered in modified bitumen. These curbs are the supports that the wooden deck attaches to and are part of the roof membrane. this keeps problems from occurring where a deck is attached on top of a roof, causing leaks. Here are some pics:

Curbs:
Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

The hatch was made by Babcock Davis and is 5' x3'. We will be installing railing around the deck... dont need any accidents happening!

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Postby classic form » Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:13 pm


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Postby drsiebling » Tue Jun 29, 2010 4:35 pm

For those who were interested in seeing the redwood, here you go!

Redwood, from the back side (the front side had been painted), while still on the wall:

Image

Redwood Burl 1x12x16 panel:

Image

Redwood T&G plank 1x6x12 with California Redwood Association stamp:

Image

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Postby drsiebling » Tue Jun 29, 2010 4:37 pm


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Postby drsiebling » Tue Jun 29, 2010 4:39 pm



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