What style home is this exactly?

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vestaviascott
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What style home is this exactly?

Postby vestaviascott » Tue Sep 10, 2013 5:52 pm

My wife and I have spotted an estate sale property that we are considering purchasing and renovating for our family home. The outside is not in bad shape at all, but the inside is a mess. The bones are there, but they've painted some of the beams gloss white with oil based paint. They've also sheetrocked between the beams in the great room.

We are looking to preserve the tongue and groove natural stained wood and strip off the paint on the beams. We'd like to do a modern update that honors the lines and style of the home.

How difficult a job is it to remove glossy oil paint on these beams? Our other option is to paint all the beams white or dark brown for consistency, but we've resolved that we want the tongue and groove ceiling planks to remain natural.

Does this particular design have a specific name (other than MCM of course)?

Image

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Last edited by vestaviascott on Sat Sep 21, 2013 7:30 am, edited 3 times in total.

vestaviascott
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Postby vestaviascott » Tue Sep 10, 2013 5:56 pm

They also appear to have installed 1/4 wood paneling over the sheetrocked walls. Is this common in houses of this period?

At first, I was expecting that we'd have to sheetrock the walls after pulling down the paneling. However, a closer inspection today appears to reveal that there is already sheetrock under the paneling. Kind of akin to finding hardwoods under carpet I suppose.

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Scott NC
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Postby Scott NC » Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:34 pm

vestaviascott wrote:They also appear to have installed 1/4 wood paneling over the sheetrocked walls. Is this common in houses of this period?

At first, I was expecting that we'd have to sheetrock the walls after pulling down the paneling. However, a closer inspection today appears to reveal that there is already sheetrock under the paneling. Kind of akin to finding hardwoods under carpet I suppose.


I'd read through all these......
http://www.lottaliving.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=5294

my best advice, live in it for a year before tearing things out, painting like a mad man, and butchering the landscape. Take that year to read tons of vintage sunset mags(go to ebay and search "mid century modern books") Lister PDXMOD has some of the best books with great pictures in his listings. Research, learn, and be patient...especially for you two who seem to be more or less "newbies" to this amazing architectural era. It will become an obsession and there will always be something to do on the house during your days off of work;) Even when you think it's good, there's always something new that pops into your head.

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Postby johnnyapollo » Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:59 am

If you can live with the brick color, don't paint it. Painted brick creates a maintenance nightmare for something that has very little maintenance - right now it's a bit "faddish" to paint the brick white or light colored, but as with many things, fads change and you may regret the choice later.

-- John
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vestaviascott
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Postby vestaviascott » Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:25 am

Duplicate post (please delete)
Last edited by vestaviascott on Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

vestaviascott
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Postby vestaviascott » Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:26 am

Scott NC wrote:I'd read through all these......
http://www.lottaliving.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=5294

Thanks for that. Great reading there. I'm going to do more research on the "Peel Away 7" system to address the issue with the painted beams. Forgot to mention, when they sheetrocked the ceiling between the beams, they also installed crown moldings to the sides of each beam!

I'm going to be looking to remove all of those unsightly moldings to restore the ceiling to the architect's original design.

I'm mainly looking for help with understanding the effort involved in restoring the inside of the home while updating the materials and finishes for modern living (hardwood floors, new lighting, updated wiring and plumbing, etc).

For example, the trashed/stained carpet flooring in the great room and the deteriorating vinyl in the kitchen. Also, the inside foyer area has large flagstone that I'd like to keep, but a few pieces have large glob stains on them that look like pools of blood (best analogy I could think of)

The bathrooms have cracked 4" and 2" tile and stained/cracked tub and toilets. The second owner really neglected the place.

vestaviascott
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Postby vestaviascott » Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:34 am

johnnyapollo wrote:If you can live with the brick color, don't paint it. Painted brick creates a maintenance nightmare for something that has very little maintenance - right now it's a bit "faddish" to paint the brick white or light colored, but as with many things, fads change and you may regret the choice later.

-- John


Good advice. I'm mainly interested in the effort involved in the inside remodel, but wanted to post the exterior to ask if there is a specific name for this style of MCM.

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Postby egads » Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:31 am

Well, your photoshop shows the exterior brick color changed, that might be where johnnyapollo got the idea you may be contemplating that.

It sounds like it will be a heap of work to undo the changes, but doable and worth it if you can get it cheap enough. There probably aren't that many MCM houses to chose from in your neck of the woods.

I would call this house a post & beam ranch.

The method for removing stains from stone is to make up a paste and leave it on for days. You try to get the stain to wick up into the paste. Google for paste formulas.

If possible, send us a link to the listing if it includes photos. I doubt there is anyone here who would try to buy it out from under you.

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Postby vestaviascott » Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:06 pm

egads wrote:Well, your photoshop shows the exterior brick color changed, that might be where johnnyapollo got the idea you may be contemplating that.


Yep, I was trying to gauge the effects of a more neutral color against the dark brown trim. I like the look but with all the inside reno projects, the budget (appx $200k for reno) may not be there for the exterior treatments.

There probably aren't that many MCM houses to chose from in your neck of the woods.


You'd be very surprised. The city of Vestavia Hills is one of the more affluent suburbs of the state with one of the top school systems in the country. It was incorporated in the 50's and many of the homes that were built then are still going strong and have survived the teardown beast, so lots of MCM can be found. Check this site for some gems > http://magiccitymodern.blogspot.com/

And soon: http://modernbham.com

I would call this house a post & beam ranch.

That's easy enough. I'm trying to find if there is a name for this roof shape other than "low pitched". So far "inverted butterfly" seems to be the one I've come across the most.

The method for removing stains from stone is to make up a paste and leave it on for days. You try to get the stain to wick up into the paste. Google for paste formulas.


Thanks for the tip!

If possible, send us a link to the listing if it includes photos. I doubt there is anyone here who would try to buy it out from under you.


The home is not on the market currently. I'm talking with the owner about the sale as it belonged to her parents who are now deceased and she has the estate and POA.

I do have several pics I'll be posted in a few minutes.

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Postby vestaviascott » Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:23 pm

Duplicate post (please delete)
Last edited by vestaviascott on Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

vestaviascott
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Postby vestaviascott » Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:27 pm

The first two pics below show the painted beams with crown molding and sheetrock over the T&G
Image
Image

This photo shows the stained flagstone in the foyer area just inside the front door entrance
Image

These next two pics show the back of the house. We'd like to move the wall out some to gain some needed space in the great room.
Image
Image

A Photoshop of what the entrance may look like with a new door and stripping off the paint to reveal the natural wood T&G on the porch ceiling. The roof trim and window trim have also been recolored a dark brown to provide more contrast with the bricks.
Image

The kitchen has seen better days. We will be doing a full reno in here and removing the wall you see on the right side to open up the kitchen to the great room where the fireplace is.
Image

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Postby egads » Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:54 pm

Oh why o why did they not just add insulation and just drywall the whole ceiling over the beams and all. That would make reversal much easier. It also would have achieved their goal much better. This really a re-muddle. It will take a lot of work to restore.

Do keep in mind that the wall between the great room & kitchen may be load bearing and will take some engineering to remove. It might be easier to just create large openings.

Watch out with the Dwell details instead of being retro. Some of the details on the front are too slick. Just changing the trim color and a new door may be all you need.

I love the kitchen birch. I redid (well still in the middle of) my kitchen and ambered the new birch to match the existing paneling and trim in my house.

So many MCM homes do not really have names but influences. Yours is influenced by Cliff May:

http://www.ranchostyle.com/

(the local realtors website for my house) May was very influential in the development of modern living. He had a long relationship with both Sunset & House Beautiful magazines

There where many others doing such work, especially in California. Joe Eichler built modern tract houses using architects such as Jones & Edmonds who's influence I certainly see in your house:

http://www.eichlernetwork.com/history

The wave of modernism moved out from California and was adapted to other climates. I bet it would be possible to find out who the architect of your house was, perhaps by doing research at your local building dept.

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Postby SDR » Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:47 pm

Your Photoshop work shows an improved house in almost every way. However, I must add my voice to those who counsel against painting masonry materials like brick and stone. The natural variation in tone from one brick to the next -- and the textures of these materials -- will be lost, while any deviation in plane or other flaws will be emphasized. Masonry is a blessing when present; live with the color and plan other tones to harmonize or contrast. That's what an architect -- like the designer of this house -- would do.

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vestaviascott
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Removing paneling to reveal sheetrock

Postby vestaviascott » Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:42 am

We would also like to remove the paneling to reveal the sheetrock walls. I believe that most of the work there is repairing where the adhesive was.

If anyone reading this has done that project and documented it or can speak to the lessons learned, I'd love to hear from you.

Image

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Would like to remove this wall and open fireplace

Postby vestaviascott » Thu Sep 12, 2013 4:05 am

We love the original fireplace. The wall its attached to runs perpendicular to the roof's ridge line. We'd like to remove the wall behind and beside the fireplace open the room front to back for our main living area.

We'd also like to open the firebox through to both sides of the room and convert it to a ventless gas unit (removing the screen and trim around the firebox). We'll most likely have to reface the backside of the fireplace to match the front.

Image


This is the wall behind the fireplace:

Image

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Postby vestaviascott » Thu Sep 12, 2013 4:12 am

This appears to be the original flooring material for the kitchen area. Can someone identify it? Is it likely to contain any ACM that we'll need to deal with?

We'd like to replace or cover this with tile or hardwood flooring

Image

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Postby vestaviascott » Thu Sep 12, 2013 4:15 am

This home is about 1.5 miles away. The homeowner states that it was built by the same architect and builder as the subject home. It appears to be a near identical plan but with the addition of a 2 car garage basement (down the hill on the left side).

Image

Will be looking to get some additional info from this homeowner on the home in order to help us determine renovation cost and hidden surprises we are likely to find.
Last edited by vestaviascott on Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby vestaviascott » Thu Sep 12, 2013 4:57 am

Some additional pics:

Image

Image

Image

Image

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Postby SDR » Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:00 am

It is a surprise to see brick and (veneer) stone used together in the same structure; architects usually employ a single masonry material throughout, as a prime example of consistency and unity -- a staple of modern design.

I would have thought that your fireplace had its stone added by a subsequent owner -- but the other stone on the house, and the second residence with the same material, makes me think that the stone is original. That opens (for me) the possibility that the exterior brick was an addition. Is there any evidence of that -- reworked window trims, odd terminations of material at corners, etc ?

The brickwork was nicely done, in any event; the brick sills look great. And the stone veneer is handsome, too, with a nice variety of color.

SDR

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Postby vestaviascott » Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:17 pm

Interesting observation on the brick/stone mix. There is no apparent evidence of later addition of either.

The previous owners had the home built after making an unsuccessful offer on the sister home above. Its my understanding that the only renovations they've done (since it was built in 1958) were the ceiling work in the den and bedroom.

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Postby SDR » Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:31 pm

Very good. It's the hope of every connoisseur to find an object in as near to original condition as possible. Congratulations ! I look forward to seeing what you are able to do with this interesting home . . .

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vestaviascott
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Postby vestaviascott » Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:56 pm

egads wrote:Do keep in mind that the wall between the great room & kitchen may be load bearing and will take some engineering to remove. It might be easier to just create large openings.


I had an architect/designer look at the house today in order to get a renovation estimate. He indicated that the exterior walls are the only load bearing support. The whole home could be opened up if desired. However, we are just opening the great room and taking the kitchen wall down.

Watch out with the Dwell details instead of being retro. Some of the details on the front are too slick. Just changing the trim color and a new door may be all you need.

I can appreciate that there is a balance between Dwell and Atomic Ranch. However, the kitchen will certainly be modernized. If Ikea is a bad word here then I'm going to be doing some serious blaspheming, lol. We will be updating the kitchen and the bathrooms to modern contemporary design, probably closer to Dwell than Atomic ranch. We love the modern lines and style of the home and we are preserving that, especially the post and beam look and T&G knotted pine ceilings.

So many MCM homes do not really have names but influences. Yours is influenced by Cliff May:

http://www.ranchostyle.com/

Thanks for all the tips. The ranchostyle site is a terrific resource!

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Postby vestaviascott » Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:19 pm

Proof that its a small world.

So, yesterday I met with a local architect at the home to discuss renovation strategy and get an estimate of cost for the project.

Turns out that the architect's firm had just done the renovation on the sister home above. He's making arrangements for us to walk through the sister home to see his renovation work.

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Postby egads » Sat Sep 14, 2013 10:18 am

Will he let you take photos? Then we can pick it apart :wink:
(perhaps there are photos on the architect's website?)

In any case you can do what you want. It's not like the original was by someone famous or completely unique in some way. It's just that around here we tend to like the charm of the original. Just like others may find a Cape Cod or Craftsman charming. So while any house needs to be functional, it hurts the preservationist in me. But not enough to keep me from changing the kitchen in my 1954 Cliff May. I'll take drawers with ball bearing slides and soft close. At the same time I'm keeping the port hole windowed yellow wall oven.

Here's my real and sincere advise: Restraint.
Real modern is less is more. Simple and logical, never show off.
Many a new kitchen has been completely ruined by having the "jewelry" of great big honkin' door handles. (it's what I don't like in your photoshopped front door) The devil is always in the details and in the case of modern, the details should not show. See Redneckmodern's blog for an Ikea kitchen done with true taste. Just like getting dressed up, taste is often about what you leave out. (we used to have a joke among my now old hipster friends that if you take off the last thing you added to an outfit it would be perfect)

Now about that gorgeous original bath photo....what do you need to change there?
Last edited by egads on Sat Sep 14, 2013 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby SDR » Sat Sep 14, 2013 12:50 pm

My great-grandmother and her sister were shopping in one of Milwaukee's best stores, in the millinery department. GGM asked the saleswoman why the most expensive hats seemed to have the least amount of decoration -- fruit, feathers, etc.

Replied the woman, "Madame -- you pay for the restraint !"

SDR

vestaviascott
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Postby vestaviascott » Sun Sep 15, 2013 4:43 am

egads wrote:Will he let you take photos? Then we can pick it apart :wink:
(perhaps there are photos on the architect's website?)


Yes, I'll be taking lots of photos. The architects website has photos but none of this house.

egads wrote:In any case you can do what you want. It's not like the original was by someone famous or completely unique in some way. It's just that around here we tend to like the charm of the original.


We are not preservationists. But we certaintly respect those who are.

In a nutshell, we will be remodeling the home in a way that it would look as if we were to build it today. The things we like about the home will be unchanged. They include the overall architecture, shed roof, exposed T&G ceilings (we'll actually have to reverse work done to hide them) and the veneer stone fireplace.

We will be renovating to include:

- Wood floors throughout the whole house (tile in bathrooms).

- Redoing tar and gravel roof (has not been touched since 1958)

- Removing wood paneling in kitchen and great room to reveal sheetrock walls and repairing sheetrock finishes.

- Removing sheetrock ceilings from two rooms to reveal original T&G

- Removing wall between kitchen and great room

- Removing wall around fireplace and knocking hole in firebox to open fireplace to both sides of great room

- Complete kitchen demo and rebuild with modern cabinets and appliances

- Complete bathroom demo and rebuild with modern cabinets, and fixtures and low flow toilets. Bathtubs (may) be kept and reglazed.

- Addition of master suite at back of home

- Replacing galvanized plumbing with copper and PVC

- Replacing wiring in kitchen and bathroom to code (ground wire and gfci)

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Postby vestaviascott » Sat Sep 21, 2013 7:29 am

Here's the photoshop retouch, leaving the stone as is:

Image[/img]


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