100 Ways to Improve Your Mid-Century Modern Home

Home improvement Q&A, pictures and news fro Mid Century Modern Homes and Houses(NOT for Real Estate)

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100 Ways to Improve Your Mid-Century Modern Home

Postby moderns-r-us » Fri Sep 09, 2005 7:44 am

And now for a more positive spin on a popular previous thread:

100 Ways to Improve Your Mid-Century Modern Home

Same rules (copy and paste the list and then add your additional line item)
Please be careful not to delete other peoples items.

I reserve the right to edit the list as we go!

We will allow multiple line items to be added in a single post this time.

No posts that just reword the items on the screw up your MCM home list

No race.

No winners or losers

No prize.

I expect this one to be tougher!

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Postby moderns-r-us » Fri Sep 09, 2005 7:46 am

Oh yea, Pictures are encouraged here as well!

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Postby Sienna » Fri Sep 09, 2005 7:48 am

Undo the 100 atrocities in the thread below:
http://www.lottaliving.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=3647


I Win!!!

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Postby moderns-r-us » Fri Sep 09, 2005 7:51 am

Sienna:

read the rules!

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Postby KateT(CA) » Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:19 am

1. Buy one. Buy two if you can. Buy a really dilapidated/remuddled one for restoration & preservation. (We are in process of buying at least one)

Kate
Best regards,
Kate at Studio 85

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Postby moderns-r-us » Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:22 am

Good start!

Welcome Kate.

Now let us get it going some more!

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Postby moderns-r-us » Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:28 am

I'll try to help get it going!

1. Buy one. Buy two if you can. Buy a really dilapidated/remuddled one for restoration & preservation. (We are in process of buying at least one)
2. Replacing large single pane glass with double pane units in colder climates by setting new insulated units into the existing wood window wall and adding new wood stops of the same profile.

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Postby Sienna » Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:29 am

moderns-r-us wrote:Sienna:

read the rules!


It was a shot for a cheap laugh... :|

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Postby moderns-r-us » Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:39 am

Ha Ha! :|

Now tell us what you are going to do to fix that MCM Rancho of yours! :)

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Postby Joe » Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:42 am

level it, subdivide the lot, build two set-back hugging mcmansions so they tower above everyone else!

oops, wrong board!

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Postby tig64105 » Fri Sep 09, 2005 12:35 pm

1. Buy one. Buy two if you can. Buy a really dilapidated/remuddled one for restoration & preservation. (We are in process of buying at least one)
2. Replacing large single pane glass with double pane units in colder climates by setting new insulated units into the existing wood window wall and adding new wood stops of the same profile.
3. Ripping off those cheap asphalt shingles and putting down a nice new modified bitumen. Replace all your decking while at it :wink: (pictures up as soon as my roofer is finished!)

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Postby moderns-r-us » Fri Sep 09, 2005 12:39 pm

Joe wrote:level it, subdivide the lot, build two set-back hugging mcmansions so they tower above everyone else!

oops, wrong board!


Yes, that is the "Lotta Losers" message board for slimy mcmansion developers.

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Postby moderns-r-us » Fri Sep 09, 2005 12:48 pm

OK tig, that is a good one. How 'bout this:

1. Buy one. Buy two if you can. Buy a really dilapidated/remuddled one for restoration & preservation. (We are in process of buying at least one)
2. Replacing large single pane glass with double pane units in colder climates by setting new insulated units into the existing wood window wall and adding new wood stops of the same profile.
3. Ripping off those cheap asphalt shingles and putting down a nice new modified bitumen. Replace all your decking while at it (pictures up as soon as my roofer is finished!)
4. Rip out those cheesy suburban foundation plantings and replace them with a cool modern landscape like Pacifica's.
Image

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Postby tig64105 » Fri Sep 09, 2005 12:50 pm

moderns-r-us wrote:OK tig, that is a good one. How 'bout this:

1. Buy one. Buy two if you can. Buy a really dilapidated/remuddled one for restoration & preservation. (We are in process of buying at least one)
2. Replacing large single pane glass with double pane units in colder climates by setting new insulated units into the existing wood window wall and adding new wood stops of the same profile.
3. Ripping off those cheap asphalt shingles and putting down a nice new modified bitumen. Replace all your decking while at it (pictures up as soon as my roofer is finished!)
4. Rip out those cheesy suburban foundation plantings and replace them with a cool modern landscape like Pacifica's.
Image


love it!!

...this thread could spell trouble....for my checkbook....

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Postby Joe » Fri Sep 09, 2005 7:58 pm

tig64105 wrote:...
2. Replacing large single pane glass with double pane units in colder climates by setting new insulated units into the existing wood window wall and adding new wood stops of the same profile...


be careful about replacing single pane glass. Don't get too consumed about making these 50 year-old home air tight. Many of these homes were made to breath. Trapping hot air can lead to uncomfortable summer conditions, expensive air conditioning bills, and fugly looking hvac units cluttering the view.

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Postby hoodlam » Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:09 pm

run new wiring throughout so you can plug in grounded appliances

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Postby hoodlam » Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:11 pm

add some dramatic outdor lighting that highlights some of the natural texture of the stone, rock or siding.


some MCM do not have this.


add a nice long rectangular simple lap pool in the back

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Postby Futura Girl » Sat Sep 10, 2005 1:11 am

1. Buy one. Buy two if you can. Buy a really dilapidated/remuddled one for restoration & preservation. (We are in process of buying at least one)
2. Replacing large single pane glass with double pane units in colder climates by setting new insulated units into the existing wood window wall and adding new wood stops of the same profile.
3. Ripping off those cheap asphalt shingles and putting down a nice new modified bitumen. Replace all your decking while at it (pictures up as soon as my roofer is finished!)
4. Rip out those cheesy suburban foundation plantings and replace them with a cool modern landscape like Pacifica's.
5. Remove very cute, but unfortuanely inapproapriate, daisy crystal chandeliers and replace with streamlined round glass Eichler globes.
6. Strip gaudy metallic gold red flocked wallpaper and replace with vintage grasscloth.
7. Tear off wall to wall vinyl flooring with floral pattern circa 1984 and install new Armstrong VCT floor.

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Postby tikiyaki » Sat Sep 10, 2005 9:10 am

Joe wrote:level it, subdivide the lot, build two set-back hugging mcmansions so they tower above everyone else!

oops, wrong board!


Yea, that would be the "how to ruin Sunland/Tujunga" board :-/

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Postby tikiyaki » Sat Sep 10, 2005 9:30 am

1. Buy one. Buy two if you can. Buy a really dilapidated/remuddled one for restoration & preservation. (We are in process of buying at least one)
2. Replacing large single pane glass with double pane units in colder climates by setting new insulated units into the existing wood window wall and adding new wood stops of the same profile.
3. Ripping off those cheap asphalt shingles and putting down a nice new modified bitumen. Replace all your decking while at it (pictures up as soon as my roofer is finished!)
4. Rip out those cheesy suburban foundation plantings and replace them with a cool modern landscape like Pacifica's.
5. Remove very cute, but unfortuanely inapproapriate, daisy crystal chandeliers and replace with streamlined round glass Eichler globes.
6. Strip gaudy metallic gold red flocked wallpaper and replace with vintage grasscloth.
7. Tear off wall to wall vinyl flooring with floral pattern circa 1984 and install new Armstrong VCT floor
8. Tear out the ugly black wrought iron fence, and put in a nice modern looking grapestake slat one made of redwood or cedar.
9. For those on a concrete slab...remove the carpet or vinyl tile and polish the cement (see SID'S old house)
10. rather than paint the existing sheetrock walls, put in some birch or lauan paneling and give it a nice stined finish. Believe it or not, it actually makes the room feel bigger.
11. take out the bad tile countertop in the kitchen (the one with all the grout lines to collect dirt and bacteria)and replace it with a nice formica or terrazzo one.
12. Replace the bad front doors with some nice flat panel ones, and while you're at it...get rid of those brass doorknobs and put in some nice modern Schalge stainless steel ones.
13. Tear out the creeping vines growing all over everything surrounding the house.
14. Add some nice Nelson Bubble lamps in appropriate places. They instantly give your house a modern feel
15. Remove the garden gnomes and cute angels and put a few tikis in their place
16. Replace the white vinyl grid windows with some nice aluminum Milgard ones
17. Take out the Roses in the front yard (the ones that makes it look like an 80 year old woman lived there) and put in some nice horsetail reed or fountaingrass.
18.

Sorry, I'm making up for my absence.

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Postby Stephen » Sun Sep 11, 2005 8:37 am

1. Buy one. Buy two if you can. Buy a really dilapidated/remuddled one for restoration & preservation. (We are in process of buying at least one)
2. Replacing large single pane glass with double pane units in colder climates by setting new insulated units into the existing wood window wall and adding new wood stops of the same profile.
3. Ripping off those cheap asphalt shingles and putting down a nice new modified bitumen. Replace all your decking while at it (pictures up as soon as my roofer is finished!)
4. Rip out those cheesy suburban foundation plantings and replace them with a cool modern landscape like Pacifica's.
5. Remove very cute, but unfortuanely inapproapriate, daisy crystal chandeliers and replace with streamlined round glass Eichler globes.
6. Strip gaudy metallic gold red flocked wallpaper and replace with vintage grasscloth.
7. Tear off wall to wall vinyl flooring with floral pattern circa 1984 and install new Armstrong VCT floor
8. Tear out the ugly black wrought iron fence, and put in a nice modern looking grapestake slat one made of redwood or cedar.
9. For those on a concrete slab...remove the carpet or vinyl tile and polish the cement (see SID'S old house)
10. rather than paint the existing sheetrock walls, put in some birch or lauan paneling and give it a nice stined finish. Believe it or not, it actually makes the room feel bigger.
11. take out the bad tile countertop in the kitchen (the one with all the grout lines to collect dirt and bacteria)and replace it with a nice formica or terrazzo one.
12. Replace the bad front doors with some nice flat panel ones, and while you're at it...get rid of those brass doorknobs and put in some nice modern Schalge stainless steel ones.
13. Tear out the creeping vines growing all over everything surrounding the house.
14. Add some nice Nelson Bubble lamps in appropriate places. They instantly give your house a modern feel
15. Remove the garden gnomes and cute angels and put a few tikis in their place
16. Replace the white vinyl grid windows with some nice aluminum Milgard ones
17. Take out the Roses in the front yard (the ones that makes it look like an 80 year old woman lived there) and put in some nice horsetail reed or fountaingrass.
18. Go meet your neighbors and get them on the bandwagon too.

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Postby paulsomm » Sun Sep 11, 2005 8:13 pm

1. Buy one. Buy two if you can. Buy a really dilapidated/remuddled one for restoration & preservation. (We are in process of buying at least one)
2. Replacing large single pane glass with double pane units in colder climates by setting new insulated units into the existing wood window wall and adding new wood stops of the same profile.
3. Ripping off those cheap asphalt shingles and putting down a nice new modified bitumen. Replace all your decking while at it (pictures up as soon as my roofer is finished!)
4. Rip out those cheesy suburban foundation plantings and replace them with a cool modern landscape like Pacifica's.
5. Remove very cute, but unfortuanely inapproapriate, daisy crystal chandeliers and replace with streamlined round glass Eichler globes.
6. Strip gaudy metallic gold red flocked wallpaper and replace with vintage grasscloth.
7. Tear off wall to wall vinyl flooring with floral pattern circa 1984 and install new Armstrong VCT floor
8. Tear out the ugly black wrought iron fence, and put in a nice modern looking grapestake slat one made of redwood or cedar.
9. For those on a concrete slab...remove the carpet or vinyl tile and polish the cement (see SID'S old house)
10. rather than paint the existing sheetrock walls, put in some birch or lauan paneling and give it a nice stined finish. Believe it or not, it actually makes the room feel bigger.
11. take out the bad tile countertop in the kitchen (the one with all the grout lines to collect dirt and bacteria)and replace it with a nice formica or terrazzo one.
12. Replace the bad front doors with some nice flat panel ones, and while you're at it...get rid of those brass doorknobs and put in some nice modern Schalge stainless steel ones.
13. Tear out the creeping vines growing all over everything surrounding the house.
14. Add some nice Nelson Bubble lamps in appropriate places. They instantly give your house a modern feel
15. Remove the garden gnomes and cute angels and put a few tikis in their place
16. Replace the white vinyl grid windows with some nice aluminum Milgard ones
17. Take out the Roses in the front yard (the ones that makes it look like an 80 year old woman lived there) and put in some nice horsetail reed or fountaingrass.
18. Go meet your neighbors and get them on the bandwagon too.
19. Embrace your atrium and make it the center of your house by installing a Koi pond/fountain. The sound of running water is better than Yoga.

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Postby Midlife Modern » Mon Sep 12, 2005 7:47 am

1. Buy one. Buy two if you can. Buy a really dilapidated/remuddled one for restoration & preservation. (We are in process of buying at least one)
2. Replacing large single pane glass with double pane units in colder climates by setting new insulated units into the existing wood window wall and adding new wood stops of the same profile.
3. Ripping off those cheap asphalt shingles and putting down a nice new modified bitumen. Replace all your decking while at it (pictures up as soon as my roofer is finished!)
4. Rip out those cheesy suburban foundation plantings and replace them with a cool modern landscape like Pacifica's.
5. Remove very cute, but unfortuanely inapproapriate, daisy crystal chandeliers and replace with streamlined round glass Eichler globes.
6. Strip gaudy metallic gold red flocked wallpaper and replace with vintage grasscloth.
7. Tear off wall to wall vinyl flooring with floral pattern circa 1984 and install new Armstrong VCT floor
8. Tear out the ugly black wrought iron fence, and put in a nice modern looking grapestake slat one made of redwood or cedar.
9. For those on a concrete slab...remove the carpet or vinyl tile and polish the cement (see SID'S old house)
10. rather than paint the existing sheetrock walls, put in some birch or lauan paneling and give it a nice stined finish. Believe it or not, it actually makes the room feel bigger.
11. take out the bad tile countertop in the kitchen (the one with all the grout lines to collect dirt and bacteria)and replace it with a nice formica or terrazzo one.
12. Replace the bad front doors with some nice flat panel ones, and while you're at it...get rid of those brass doorknobs and put in some nice modern Schalge stainless steel ones.
13. Tear out the creeping vines growing all over everything surrounding the house.
14. Add some nice Nelson Bubble lamps in appropriate places. They instantly give your house a modern feel
15. Remove the garden gnomes and cute angels and put a few tikis in their place
16. Replace the white vinyl grid windows with some nice aluminum Milgard ones
17. Take out the Roses in the front yard (the ones that makes it look like an 80 year old woman lived there) and put in some nice horsetail reed or fountaingrass.
18. Go meet your neighbors and get them on the bandwagon too.
19. Embrace your atrium and make it the center of your house by installing a Koi pond/fountain. The sound of running water is better than Yoga.
20. Replace the colonial looking coach light on the front of the house with an appropriate mcm original or a simple geometric one if you can't find an original.

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Postby PacificaModern » Tue Sep 13, 2005 7:31 am

1. Buy one. Buy two if you can. Buy a really dilapidated/remuddled one for restoration & preservation. (We are in process of buying at least one)
2. Replacing large single pane glass with double pane units in colder climates by setting new insulated units into the existing wood window wall and adding new wood stops of the same profile.
3. Ripping off those cheap asphalt shingles and putting down a nice new modified bitumen. Replace all your decking while at it (pictures up as soon as my roofer is finished!)
4. Rip out those cheesy suburban foundation plantings and replace them with a cool modern landscape like Pacifica's.
5. Remove very cute, but unfortuanely inapproapriate, daisy crystal chandeliers and replace with streamlined round glass Eichler globes.
6. Strip gaudy metallic gold red flocked wallpaper and replace with vintage grasscloth.
7. Tear off wall to wall vinyl flooring with floral pattern circa 1984 and install new Armstrong VCT floor
8. Tear out the ugly black wrought iron fence, and put in a nice modern looking grapestake slat one made of redwood or cedar.
9. For those on a concrete slab...remove the carpet or vinyl tile and polish the cement (see SID'S old house)
10. rather than paint the existing sheetrock walls, put in some birch or lauan paneling and give it a nice stined finish. Believe it or not, it actually makes the room feel bigger.
11. take out the bad tile countertop in the kitchen (the one with all the grout lines to collect dirt and bacteria)and replace it with a nice formica or terrazzo one.
12. Replace the bad front doors with some nice flat panel ones, and while you're at it...get rid of those brass doorknobs and put in some nice modern Schalge stainless steel ones.
13. Tear out the creeping vines growing all over everything surrounding the house.
14. Add some nice Nelson Bubble lamps in appropriate places. They instantly give your house a modern feel
15. Remove the garden gnomes and cute angels and put a few tikis in their place
16. Replace the white vinyl grid windows with some nice aluminum Milgard ones
17. Take out the Roses in the front yard (the ones that makes it look like an 80 year old woman lived there) and put in some nice horsetail reed or fountaingrass.
18. Go meet your neighbors and get them on the bandwagon too.
19. Embrace your atrium and make it the center of your house by installing a Koi pond/fountain. The sound of running water is better than Yoga.
20. Replace the colonial looking coach light on the front of the house with an appropriate mcm original or a simple geometric one if you can't find an original.

21. Glass, Glass, and more Glass (especially if it opens to the outside world)

Image

Simply Awesome.

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Postby ch » Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:11 pm

1. Buy one. Buy two if you can. Buy a really dilapidated/remuddled one for restoration & preservation. (We are in process of buying at least one)
2. Replacing large single pane glass with double pane units in colder climates by setting new insulated units into the existing wood window wall and adding new wood stops of the same profile.
3. Ripping off those cheap asphalt shingles and putting down a nice new modified bitumen. Replace all your decking while at it (pictures up as soon as my roofer is finished!)
4. Rip out those cheesy suburban foundation plantings and replace them with a cool modern landscape like Pacifica's.
5. Remove very cute, but unfortuanely inapproapriate, daisy crystal chandeliers and replace with streamlined round glass Eichler globes.
6. Strip gaudy metallic gold red flocked wallpaper and replace with vintage grasscloth.
7. Tear off wall to wall vinyl flooring with floral pattern circa 1984 and install new Armstrong VCT floor
8. Tear out the ugly black wrought iron fence, and put in a nice modern looking grapestake slat one made of redwood or cedar.
9. For those on a concrete slab...remove the carpet or vinyl tile and polish the cement (see SID'S old house)
10. rather than paint the existing sheetrock walls, put in some birch or lauan paneling and give it a nice stined finish. Believe it or not, it actually makes the room feel bigger.
11. take out the bad tile countertop in the kitchen (the one with all the grout lines to collect dirt and bacteria)and replace it with a nice formica or terrazzo one.
12. Replace the bad front doors with some nice flat panel ones, and while you're at it...get rid of those brass doorknobs and put in some nice modern Schalge stainless steel ones.
13. Tear out the creeping vines growing all over everything surrounding the house.
14. Add some nice Nelson Bubble lamps in appropriate places. They instantly give your house a modern feel
15. Remove the garden gnomes and cute angels and put a few tikis in their place
16. Replace the white vinyl grid windows with some nice aluminum Milgard ones
17. Take out the Roses in the front yard (the ones that makes it look like an 80 year old woman lived there) and put in some nice horsetail reed or fountaingrass.
18. Go meet your neighbors and get them on the bandwagon too.
19. Embrace your atrium and make it the center of your house by installing a Koi pond/fountain. The sound of running water is better than Yoga.
20. Replace the colonial looking coach light on the front of the house with an appropriate mcm original or a simple geometric one if you can't find an original.

21. Glass, Glass, and more Glass (especially if it opens to the outside world)

22. Resist the urge to paint everything WHITE. If ceiling beams are painted outside, use paint to match them up with interior ones. Do a wall or two in a bright accent color. Look at vintage photos (not contemporary ones) to see that people weren't afraid of color when these houses were built.

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Postby bluecherub » Tue Sep 13, 2005 9:10 pm

I'd thought I add mine:
Last edited by bluecherub on Tue Sep 13, 2005 9:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby bluecherub » Tue Sep 13, 2005 9:14 pm

1. Buy one. Buy two if you can. Buy a really dilapidated/remuddled one for restoration & preservation. (We are in process of buying at least one)
2. Replacing large single pane glass with double pane units in colder climates by setting new insulated units into the existing wood window wall and adding new wood stops of the same profile.
3. Ripping off those cheap asphalt shingles and putting down a nice new modified bitumen. Replace all your decking while at it (pictures up as soon as my roofer is finished!)
4. Rip out those cheesy suburban foundation plantings and replace them with a cool modern landscape like Pacifica's.
5. Remove very cute, but unfortuanely inapproapriate, daisy crystal chandeliers and replace with streamlined round glass Eichler globes.
6. Strip gaudy metallic gold red flocked wallpaper and replace with vintage grasscloth.
7. Tear off wall to wall vinyl flooring with floral pattern circa 1984 and install new Armstrong VCT floor
8. Tear out the ugly black wrought iron fence, and put in a nice modern looking grapestake slat one made of redwood or cedar.
9. For those on a concrete slab...remove the carpet or vinyl tile and polish the cement (see SID'S old house)
10. rather than paint the existing sheetrock walls, put in some birch or lauan paneling and give it a nice stined finish. Believe it or not, it actually makes the room feel bigger.
11. take out the bad tile countertop in the kitchen (the one with all the grout lines to collect dirt and bacteria)and replace it with a nice formica or terrazzo one.
12. Replace the bad front doors with some nice flat panel ones, and while you're at it...get rid of those brass doorknobs and put in some nice modern Schalge stainless steel ones.
13. Tear out the creeping vines growing all over everything surrounding the house.
14. Add some nice Nelson Bubble lamps in appropriate places. They instantly give your house a modern feel
15. Remove the garden gnomes and cute angels and put a few tikis in their place
16. Replace the white vinyl grid windows with some nice aluminum Milgard ones
17. Take out the Roses in the front yard (the ones that makes it look like an 80 year old woman lived there) and put in some nice horsetail reed or fountaingrass.
18. Go meet your neighbors and get them on the bandwagon too.
19. Embrace your atrium and make it the center of your house by installing a Koi pond/fountain. The sound of running water is better than Yoga.
20. Replace the colonial looking coach light on the front of the house with an appropriate mcm original or a simple geometric one if you can't find an original.

21. Glass, Glass, and more Glass (especially if it opens to the outside world)

22. Resist the urge to paint everything WHITE. If ceiling beams are painted outside, use paint to match them up with interior ones. Do a wall or two in a bright accent color. Look at vintage photos (not contemporary ones) to see that people weren't afraid of color when these houses were built.

23. Hack off that lousy stucco that the previous owner slathered on top of your ribbed Eichler style wooden siding! Restore the siding and give it a nice coat of some pretty color like Necco Wafer pastel lime!

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Postby Chimay » Wed Sep 14, 2005 2:47 pm

Wife and I are having this debate on color with our own house right now. I've never been afraid of color in previous houses, but I've been reluctant to do anything in this one since the remodel.

I guess that's true what you say about color at the time, Craig. I've certainly seen lots of color in MCM hotels and googie style coffee shops and such. But honestly, I haven't seen much color in the homes I've personally visited, or in vintage photos - except for on the exterior of the Eames studio, and a small highlight here or there - and in the art work and furniture. It seems like most of the time, these houses were built to be low-key, with lots of glass and natural woods, rather than bold colors. Could be wrong. Just a perception.

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Friends don't let friends live in McMansions
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ch
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Postby ch » Wed Sep 14, 2005 5:03 pm

Chimay,

Thanks for the fab pics to remind us of how great the real thing was/is. If you look at these pics, you see what I'm talking about. Not one of them is a monochromatic gallery white as is so common these days. I think people look at the vintage B&W photos (like to two Neutras you show) and try to recreate these environments in grayscale. The case study house you show originally had YELLOW kitchen cabinets, for example.

For those restoring, take a look at Julius Shulman's book "Modernism Rediscovered" for great vintage color photos. Or take a look at the color schemes created by Gregory Ain for the Mar Vista homes. Or look at Alexander Girard's ideas about color. I'm not talking slavish re-creation but I guess what I'm saying is not to be afraid of color - our parents and grandparents weren't!

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Postby Jamal » Thu Sep 15, 2005 4:05 am

Along the lines of Item 22...

When we moved in - we lived in the house untouched for 1 year. We soon realized that with MCM homes (this is our first one) - a large part of the interior design experience was the exterior (landscaping, gardens, views, etc). Glass, glass, and more glass...

So we made the call to do the gardens and landscaping first (before doing the outside of the house). The plantings are already maturing and looking better than if we left it to the end. Now that we're getting to the outside (roof and gutters starting Wednesday!) we'll see if the guys ruin the landscaping or not!


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