Bathroom ideas?

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Sienna
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Bathroom ideas?

Postby Sienna » Tue Sep 13, 2005 7:50 am

Just wondering what kinds of looks there are out there for bathrooms. We have white tub, white sink, white toilet. The floors will be polished concrete throughout the entire house. The guest bathroom is very small and the master bathroom is only slightly larger.

No pink, no blue, as the house colors will be in the brownish-orange scheme. We're looking for simple design, nothing nostalgic yet, we want a timeless mcm look.

If it helps, the house is a Cliff May Rancho

:cheers:

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Postby Joe » Tue Sep 13, 2005 9:05 am

Sienna, you can easily drop $20-$30K into a bathroom and have it dated with in a couple years. Kitchens and bathrooms get remodeled the most. I just finished our main bath and here's what we did...

walls: installed basic white ceramic tiles door-height high on the three main walls and tub surround.

floors: carried classic black VCT from the rest of the house into bathroom.

toilet: went with a basic white toilet from HD

tub: while I really loved our pink Briggs tub, our matching toilet and sink were long gone and pink tile not found. So we hired bathcrest to color it white and we are quite pleased. Like new

shower curtain: found an obscure-clear curtain at BB&B with simple rail. we could have installed a sliding tub door, but decided they are too tough to clean

vanity: restored original with sliding cabinet doors. Installed new white formica/plywood counter top with matching metal edge trim from the kitchen counters. Installed white oval Kholer metal rimmed sink with basic faucet.

other details: The cheapest metal towel racks at Home Depot are exactly like what was original. basic mirror install behind vanity. We used white gloss enamel paint on vanity, ceiling. Installed new, basic tub/shower fixtures. stainless switch plate and black plug/switch (throughout house). Birch door with stainless hardware

The color scheme is black, white, and stainless/chrome. We'll use towels and a couple nifty framed vintage ads to add color and interest. It's a brand new, period friendly bathroom. (yes, photos are coming)

total cost of the redo, including labor (we only did some demo): about $2000

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Postby Dan O. » Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:51 pm

I just made a cool towel hanger with a cheap, nicely designed toilet paper holder (for the ends) and a length of round Lucite rod.

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One thing I absolutely don't like

Postby modfan » Tue Sep 13, 2005 2:04 pm

Is those drop in style lavatories-they sell and install a lot because they are easy to install but when it comes to wiping down the countertops into the basin, you can't do it, cause of the raised rim those kind of sinks have.
I much prefer the undermount sinks with the faucet holes in them (not the kind where you have to put the faucet holes in the countertop)-hard to find but Kohler still has them-thank God, at least that design make sense.

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What about cork?

Postby Stephen » Tue Sep 13, 2005 2:27 pm

Here are some ideas from my perspective, Sienna. While my bathrooms have been redone to the extent they are "updated" -- they are far from ideal so I've been thinking about bathrooms too.

Given your polished concrete floors, you might want to echo that motif with a concrete vanity of sorts. I know that sounds like a faddy choice, but I think the reason why that looks dated in a few years for most people is because they try installing it in their colonial / french provincial / tuscan McMansion where it never fit to begin with.

Also, I would go with a more natural material for the tub surround. Everybody does slate tiles, so you might find that slate flagstone for the gives an incredibly rugged, outdoorsy look. The good news is that slate flagstone isn't terribly expensive (and looks great wet, too) but the labor cost to install versus tile is quite a bit higher.

I also remember somebody mentioning a bathroom made of cork tiles. I'm very intrigued by this idea for my own house. You can have cork floor, walls, and shower. This is a particularly interesting concept in small bathrooms because it would allow for an enclosure-free shower, thus making the bathroom feel subjectively larger.

What really cool about many of the new "faddy" bathroom items is that they look like they actually fit in a Cliff May house. Take advantage of that. While I know Joe feels these materials outclass the house to some degree, down here in SoCal there are some interesting observations to make:

- As a first-time homebuyer buying a Cliff May basically requires a six-figure income
- Down here, at least, these homes are worth a bit more "done up" than houses with shag carpeting. A case in point would be my neighborhood versus Sienna's. By zipcode, our respective areas should be about the same per sq ft. However, the Long Beach Ranchos have seen a number of really nice houses go for $200,000 (that's a lot of remodeling, folks) more than in my neighborhood of relatively remuddled homes. The market will pay for a well-done, high-quality remodel in SoCal.

Stephen

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Seems to me that

Postby modfan » Tue Sep 13, 2005 3:15 pm

Flagstone and cork tile would not be a good choice for wet areas,
unless they are sealed somehow, and sanitary/cleaning of those surfaces
might present a problem.

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staying original?

Postby MikeLindsey » Tue Sep 13, 2005 3:27 pm

Sienna,

It does not sound as if you plan on keeping the bathrooms original? If so, ignore my response below.

One cool thing about small bathrooms is you get to experiment a little more and it should not cost as much. I personally like small mosaic tiles (glass or ceramic). I am also a fan of subway tiles. With cement floors in the bathroom, you could get away with tile walls and it would not be too expensive. Most importantly, respect your color scheme and just about anything you do will turn out.


Mike

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Re: Seems to me that

Postby Stephen » Tue Sep 13, 2005 3:31 pm

modfan wrote:Flagstone and cork tile would not be a good choice for wet areas,
unless they are sealed somehow, and sanitary/cleaning of those surfaces
might present a problem.


It's definitely not a DIY job and requires a contractor with experience working with those materials in a bathroom.

Stephen

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Postby morbank » Tue Sep 13, 2005 4:35 pm

My hubby and I have noticed in a lot of friends' original MCM bathrooms that they always seem to be outdated by like 10 years or so to the construction date of the house...i.e. a 60s house still has a 50s looking bathroom. Does anyone see that as well?

If you go with tile I suggest small tile, no bigger than 4x4 or brick size....we had big 10x10 tiles in our old house in the tiny bathrooms and it made them look even smaller, not to mention claustrophobic!!!

I'm not so crazy about the mosaic "italian" style clear or frosted glass .75x.75 tile because it has such a modern look as opposed to classic MCM look, but the original mosaic tile in my bathroom now looks very nice. Wish it were on the walls too and not just the shower floor.

I saw this tile called penny-tile....dime sized tiles on a mesh grid. It was fantastic! There's also hex-shaped mini tile on mesh but that is a REAL 40s look in my opinion, tho still classic...

There's always a decision to be made....Modern vs. MCM; does anyone else agree that these are too very different things???

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Postby Joe » Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:04 pm

morbank wrote:There's always a decision to be made....Modern vs. MCM; does anyone else agree that these are too very different things???


If done right, what was Modern 50 years ago can be quite timeless. Do any of Neutra's bathrooms feel dated?

I can't call what's popular today "Modern" ... more like "contemporary" History will judge what's Modern and what's not. Modernism is not about using exotic, expensive materials to complete the design, it's about good design with average materials, or new technologies.

Personally, I don't really care what someone prefers, be it modern, contemporary, faux. regardless of where you live and your income level, it's ridiculous to sink $20K into a tract home bathroom remodel. It's a place where you crap, shower and clean yourself up–nothing more. Modernism is about good practical design, not pretentiousness.

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Re: What about cork?

Postby Joe » Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:13 pm

Stephen wrote: The market will pay for a well-done, high-quality remodel in SoCal.

Stephen


Stephan, I am not a first time home buyer.

The market also likes two stories, faux this-faux that, and frue-frue materials. The market will also pay well for honest design and original details. I really don't care about the market. I don't intend on turning my house over anytime soon.

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Postby SDR » Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:22 pm

I agree --amd wonder why those who spent "too much" on their house (through no fault of their own) feel that they must also spend "too much" on fixing it up -- with the unfortunate "justification" that the next owner will expect/demand it (?).

Go back and read the description of Joe's bathroom. In my opinion, there is no better place to practice practical minimalism and "plain-ness" than in the bathroom and kitchen -- for esthetic, historical, functional AND economic reasons !

There is no end of trendy, "mod," glamorous and colorful material to choose from. The kind of homes we claim to like, need such materials in very small quantities, as carefully-chosen accents, if at all -- in my humble opinion.

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Postby Stephen » Tue Sep 13, 2005 6:29 pm

Joe wrote:Modernism is not about using exotic, expensive materials to complete the design, it's about good design with average materials, or new technologies.


The Lovell Health House isn't modern? Concrete, steel casement windows, steel frame, all uber-exotic and expensive materials in residential construction for the time. I'm sure a much simpler design could have been done with wood.

Joe wrote:It's a place where you crap, shower and clean yourself up–nothing more. Modernism is about good practical design, not pretentiousness.


I will agree that modern design is about good design and not impressing the neighbors / frienemies with whatever latest exotic bathroom material / gadget you installed. With that said, a master bathroom is much more than a place to crap, shower, and clean yourself up...at least in my case. For many people, the master bath is the first place they go when they wake up -- it's the place they start their day. Personally, I would much prefer to be inspired in the morning than disappointed. Additionally, and maybe I'm just a little weird, some of my best thinking occurs in the shower. Big ideas. If there's a way to improve that portion of my life, gosh-darnit, I'm gonna do it.

Stephen

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Postby SDR » Tue Sep 13, 2005 7:43 pm

Can you be satisfied only by luxury? Is beauty, and inspiration, possible only with expensive material?

One man's castle is another man's prison, I suppose. And, as they say "it's a free country" :D

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Postby Stephen » Tue Sep 13, 2005 8:44 pm

SDR wrote:Can you be satisfied only by luxury? Is beauty, and inspiration, possible only with expensive material?

One man's castle is another man's prison, I suppose. And, as they say "it's a free country" :D

SDR


The crux of the matter is that non-standard stuff is often expensive. Interestingly enough, many of the materials we find exotic and expensive are pedestrian and affordable in their native areas.

Sienna asked about different looks for bathrooms and then mentioned she currently has a white tub, white sink, and white toilet. I interpreted that to mean she wasn't terribly satisfied with "the norm" and wanted some ideas towards the fringe. And for me, I'm willing to pay extra to get something unique and it sounds like she wants some ideas too.

If only luxury satisfied me I certainly wouldn't have bought a Cliff May house without A/C.

Stephen

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Postby Joe » Tue Sep 13, 2005 9:02 pm

you're comparing the Lovell Health House to an affordable Cliff May prefab home? Completely different context and different era. LHH was an experimental house, not someone's place to dump disposable income, or take out a second mortgage. Neutra's simpler homes for his clients on a budget were his best work.

Form follows function. There's not too much you can do in a 5x8 space to "improve someone's life" How does moving the plumbing improve someone's life? How does a $1200 toilet make you crap better than a $120 toilet? House does the shape of a faucet clean your hand better?

I like to think in the shower too. I find inspiration by design that still makes sense 50 years later. I am not talking pink and blue bathrooms (which are cool), rather achieving period correctness, on a budget, while retaining timelessness. The strongest aspect of Modernism is it's timelessness, not just the contemporary feeling you get. Big ideas doesn't necessarily mean big budgets.

One thing you'll learn, Stephen, is that I will almost always take the side of "what was" rather than "what could be". That's really the point of the forums. I have lived in my home for four years now and I am continually amazed by how every original design detail has function and a context of residential design that makes so much sense in today's world.

That being said, I am not against anyone remodeling their bathroom to better fit their life style. I just outlined what I did to my guest bath for a mere $2000. Most folks I know who make six figures live in McMansions and don't want anything to do with MCM homes. Most folks I know will find great inspiration in the fact I maintained original details of a bathroom that is practically brand new.

Rather than beating the bush about old vs new, let's talk about what sienna can do to his bathroom. Here's what I intend for my masterbath...

I plan to put in a double-width tiled walk in shower, continuing the 1x1 tiles on the walls and floor. Probably go with a combo of three shades of blue and white. Yet to pick out. Install a glass shower door. Replace old blue toilet with smaller white one. My vanity is beat up. I will attempt to restore it, while adding a new counter and sink, commercial Kholer rectangle with stainless rim. If I can't restore vanity, I'll build a simple birch vanity. I think vanity cabinets are important for storage, rather than a pedestal sink or cantilever sink.

I do wish the masterbath was larger. I have a plan to double the size of the bathroom, but that will come when I add an extra module to the master suite.

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Postby bitzala » Tue Sep 13, 2005 10:17 pm

Most folks I know who make six figures live in McMansions and don't want anything to do with MCM homes.


Wow-- that's interesting and surprising, Joe. The only people I know who are interested in MCM design make 6 figures or more. And I don't know a single person making 6 figures or more that lives in a McMansion.

Maybe it just depends on the region you live in. In the area where I reside, people love fine architecture period... older, character homes for sure and in some instances, MCM homes. But there is no correlation between higher income and modernist leanings in my sample. (My personal theory is that there is a correlation between poliitical persuasian and McMansion dwelling, but I only have anecdotal data to support this :o)

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One thing you may want to think about

Postby modfan » Wed Sep 14, 2005 4:34 am

Unless you have a maid to clean up the bath.
Like my previous post alluded to, pick surfaces that are easy to clean and a minimum amount of ledges corners molding and such etc.

Regardless of what you ultimately do, I would guess that stay away from ANY fixtures that are drop in or that have a ledge to prevent a wipedown into the drain-none of these type of lavs or tubs and I would say none of those bowl basins that are exposed-they do look cool but you have to clean under them
BUT some of those modern faucets look real cool and seem to be an easy clean. And I am impressed with the American Standard Champion low flush toilet but some folks may think that the tank sits too high.

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Re: One thing you may want to think about

Postby Stephen » Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:55 am

modfan wrote:Unless you have a maid to clean up the bath.
Like my previous post alluded to, pick surfaces that are easy to clean and a minimum amount of ledges corners molding and such etc.


The minimal ledges advice works aesthetically too. Bathrooms with tons of molding and trim just seem like too much going on, especially in a smaller bathroom.

modfan wrote:Regardless of what you ultimately do, I would guess that stay away from ANY fixtures that are drop in or that have a ledge to prevent a wipedown into the drain-none of these type of lavs or tubs and I would say none of those bowl basins that are exposed-they do look cool but you have to clean under them


Are you talking about one of these:

Image

I like it because it's the most uncluttered expression of a bathroom sink: a place that catches the water that comes out of the faucet. But, I never thought about cleaning the drain before, which doesn't look terrible accessible.

modfan wrote:BUT some of those modern faucets look real cool and seem to be an easy clean. And I am impressed with the American Standard Champion low flush toilet but some folks may think that the tank sits too high.


Normally, I'd say tank height is irrelevant. But, in a small bathroom it might make a difference. I really like Chimay's master bath toilet (it's so inobtrusive) but I have a feeling it would be outside my "what I think is reasonable to spend on a toilet" comfort zone.

Stephen[/img]

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Postby Joe » Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:52 am

bitzala wrote:Wow-- that's interesting and surprising, Joe. The only people I know who are interested in MCM design make 6 figures or more. And I don't know a single person making 6 figures or more that lives in a McMansion.


I guess we don't know the same people. :wink:

The photo that stephan posted above is a perfect example of what I am talking about. I would guess there would be some major plumbing changes, right? Costly too. Let's be honest here, that faucet-sink combo is really just decoration, right? It really doesn't function any better. or does it? You like it because it looks nice, right? That's OK. I am not dogging you. I am just wondering why people make the purchasing decisions they do.

Question, what's the typical price for a sink-faucet combo like that, sans labor to install?
Last edited by Joe on Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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That sink is

Postby modfan » Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:52 am

unusual, but I like the faucet.
Wonder if there is splatter when it is turned on, and what if you wanted to fill the basin, and you're right about the drain, where is it?

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Postby Sienna » Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:55 am

I like the simplest of ideas. The bathroom is small. I pretty much lean towards the sh**, shower, and shave philosophy when it comes to bathrooms. If it's clean presentable for the users then I feel it's a success. There are plenty of materials to choose from. I already have a white pedestal sink - a small square one. I have a small white toilet and my original blue tub that has been reglazed to white. I contemplated a vanity but the room is so small that I felt the pedestal would use less room. I don't have a lot to store so storage is not a problem.

The surroundings will be paint, chrome accessories like towel hangers, faucet, etc, and tile. What I am wondering more about are the colors. There are already colors of grey (floor), white, chrome so anything else would be either be more white, more grey, or black perhaps with a plant or a vase on top of theback of the linen closet that protrudes into the bathroom. Maybe a small wooden shelf or very narrow wooden bench agains the wall opposite the sink. Glass shower door to allow the most light to come in from the window above the tub, the same simple mirror, and towels of some accent color, or again, white. I want simplicity but will all this white, grey and chrome be too bland? Perhaps a small painting or pinup art?

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Postby tikiyaki » Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:24 am

Joe wrote:
Personally, I don't really care what someone prefers, be it modern, contemporary, faux. regardless of where you live and your income level, it's ridiculous to sink $20K into a tract home bathroom remodel. It's a place where you crap, shower and clean yourself up–nothing more. Modernism is about good practical design, not pretentiousness.


Man, I totally agree. It amazes me that the common real estate mentality is "bathrooms and kitchens sell houses"....I've heard this countless times before. While I understand the kitchen part, the bathroom seems like the least important room to sink 20-30K into. A friend of mine told me that her boyfriend spent $30,000 on their new bathroom.....$30,000!!!!!
Sorry, but that is a gross misuse of money, even if you have alot.(she agrees, by the way, but it's not her house)

I realize that anything invloving tile work, sinks and toilets is something you need experience in replacing, so the labor is more expensive, but at the end of the day, the bathroom is a place to clean yourself and crap....period. How many hours a day do you spend in a bathroom ?

I say, spend it on the living room or kitchen, where you spend a good chunk of your time.

Yea, a nice bathroom is cool, but 2-3k for a remodel should cover it.

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Postby Joe » Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:26 am

there's not much you can do in these bathrooms. We have a window above the tub. We painted the window with marine paint since it's exposed to water quite a bit. We painted the exposed beam the same color as the rest of the beams (black).

I opted to not put rigid insulation in the ceiling for better circulation.

Tiled walls also work great for cleaning since there isn't great air circulation. Hot showers produce steam... Plus we like the classic look. I didn't want to do tile all the way to the ceiling because of the vaulted ceiling, so we quit at the top of the door jam. The tile is the simple white 4x4s (11 cents ea at HD). I thought about dropping in a random color tile, here and there, but didn't.

you mentioned brown and orange in your bath. is that tile color? I was in a five bedroom cliff may down the street a while back and the third bath had original brown-tan-orange 2x2 tiles in a walk-in shower.
Last edited by Joe on Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Chimay » Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:28 am

OK, I've tried to restrain myself from participating in this conversation, but I can't resist anymore. So I'll dive in, even thought what I'm going to say will sound contradictory and even hypocritical, probably...

Anyway, the way I see it is that what we have here is a bit of a conflict between two opposing schools of thought - the MCM preservationists and the modernists.

To paraphrase a friend of mine (who also happens to live in a beautifully restored P&K in our neighborhood) - modernism needs to live and evolve or it dies. I'm not interested in living in a museum of how people lived in 1959. I have a tremendous amount of respect for the styles, designs, and architecture of the time. But there's ALWAYS room for improvement. And those same architects who are still alive today will be the first to tell you that (William Krisel, Homer Delawie, for example). In my humble opinion, it's more important to reflect the spirit of the time than to put in the same crappy plastic Moen faucets just because that was what was there first. Isn't modernism supposed to be about taking risks, new ideas?

My view on the original bathrooms of the more modest MCM homes (tract homes, mostly, like P&Ks, Cliff May Ranchos) is that it reflected the spirit of the day, when people didn't expect to have more than one tiny bathroom for three or even four bedrooms. Hence, the classic scene you see in old movies and sitcoms where the poor, hapless father keeps getting locked out of the bathroom in the morning because his wife and kids are always in there.

When builders started putting a master bath in homes around the late 50s, early 60s, it was pretty revolutionary and considered a luxury to have it at all - even though they were tiny and more utilitarian than spa-like. Also, the plumbing fixtures used (especially in the tract homes) were the cheapest, most basic things available right out of the Home Depot equivalent at the time. The fact is, about the least modern things in these homes were the bathrooms. But nobody had spent anytime thinking about how to improve the bathroom yet for tract homes. And those crappy faucets and fixtures were pretty much all that was available, so that's what they had to use. When they did have access to the latest technologies and appliances (Thermador and GE kitchens, for example), they used them willingly. If they had had access to things like hansgrohe and kohler faucets and sinks, I'm pretty sure they would have used them. As it's been pointed out already here, modern things tend to go very well in these modernist homes, regardless of the era they come from, without necessarily looking dated.

It all comes down to personal preference, perhaps. I don't mean to sound pedantic about it. Quite the opposite. But personally, I think that something like these faucets...

Image

...looks a lot more appropriate in a modernist post & beam house than something like this (original fixtures)...

Image

Anyway, we're all free to do what we like. But I personally think that it's a bit silly to sacrifice comfort or aesthetics simply because back in the day they only had cheap, crappy stuff available and hadn't gotten around to thinking about modernism as it applied to bathrooms. Like I said in a previous thread on kitchens, if I lived in a 17th century French chateau, I probably wouldn't be doing all of my cooking in a cauldron suspended in the fireplace, and in a woodburning oven. I wouldn't have any qualms about installing a kitchen with modern appliances. So why is it any different here!?

Oh, and for the record, the bathroom is my wife's favorite place in the house. She can literally spend hours in there. So it was a priority for her. It was a priority for me because when I'm bleary-eyed in the morning and stumble in there, it cheers me up to see something nice, open, light-filled, clean, minimalist, and airy. Depends on one's priorities, I suppose. Call me trendy.

Image
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Postby Joe » Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:41 am

Chimay wrote:Anyway, the way I see it is that what we have here is a bit of a conflict between two opposing schools of thought - the MCM preservationists and the modernists.


I figured you were lurking. you're correct, there are two schools of thought, which runs beyond the bathroom. It runs along the lines of the definitions of remodeling, renovating, and restoring. I like to think I am somewhere between restoring and renovating. you lean more toward remodeling and renovating. which is fine because you have down it in a tasteful way that works with the architecture.

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Re: That sink is

Postby Stephen » Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:43 am

modfan wrote:unusual, but I like the faucet.
Wonder if there is splatter when it is turned on, and what if you wanted to fill the basin, and you're right about the drain, where is it?


It's a laminar flow faucet so there is no splatter. The water just spreads in in perpetual puddle across the surface.

As for filling the basin...no can do. Personally, I have never once filled a lavatory basin so I think I'd be fine with that. The water flows over the edges of the main plate into a sloped moat underneath. Below that it has a normal drain outlet at the bottom.

As for cost, the sink prices out at $416 in white and the "Falling Water" faucet comes in at $407, though there are other faucet manufacturers with the trick one-knob laminar wall outlet for < $300.

I am with Joe on the lavatory cabinet, though. As neat as a cantilevered sink looks, in a small bathroom is just feels like a wasted space. One alternative may be to do a cantilevered sink and a matching cantilevered shelf below for towel storage. Or, I have seen cantileverd cabinets like this:

Image

But the street price on that little thing is $800+.

Stephen

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Chimay
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Postby Chimay » Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:50 am

Thanks, Joe. Well said and very true. (although I'm certainly capable of screwing something up in my remuddling adventures).

I agree with the cantilevered cabinet idea. That's what I did in our bathroom (see photos on other thread). Had them built cheaply out of MDF and then used IKEA cabinet doors and hinges to give them a finished look.

For the faucets, we have the laminar flow faucets in our bathroom, as well (there's that technology again!). We love them because it keeps the splatter down to nil - and looks really cool, too.
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modfan
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I like

Postby modfan » Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:11 am

Sienna's description-sounds like the bath is on the smallish side and did the right things to keep it from looking too cramped. What kinda med. cab. did ya go with, if any?

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PacificaModern
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Postby PacificaModern » Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:26 am

Chimay wrote: In my humble opinion, it's more important to reflect the spirit of the time than to put in the same crappy plastic Moen faucets just because that was what was there first. Isn't modernism supposed to be about taking risks, new ideas?


Image

Anyway, we're all free to do what we like. But I personally think that it's a bit silly to sacrifice comfort or aesthetics simply because back in the day they only had cheap, crappy stuff available and hadn't gotten around to thinking about modernism as it applied to bathrooms. Like I said in a previous thread on kitchens, if I lived in a 17th century French chateau, I probably wouldn't be doing all of my cooking in a cauldron suspended in the fireplace, and in a woodburning oven. I wouldn't have any qualms about installing a kitchen with modern appliances. So why is it any different here!?






Easy there fella, this is my fabulous master bath faucet you're showing here! Except that mine is in trendy, flaky, peeling white finish!

Further we all know that you cook your Eye of Newt soup in a steaming cauldron, and NOT in that beautiful kitchen of yours...

Well, I say you're a witch and we should burn you! (...murmors of approval from the crowd...)


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