Cliff May Living Room Lighting

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Stephen
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Cliff May Living Room Lighting

Postby Stephen » Sun Feb 04, 2007 10:15 pm

I've been sitting in the dark for far too long.

Unlike the Long Beach Ranchos, my CM has fully drywalled ceilings. I've been thinking of a bunch of options: cables, recessed, and track.

The cables are neat, and if I had exposed beams I think I would go these route. The recessed are cool, but 6" is pretty shallow. They also lack positionability. Right now, I'm leaning towards low-voltage track for the following reasons:

- Ease of initial installation and down-the-road changes
- Cost
- Closeness to ceiling
- Size of fixtures

I was hoping some folks might have some suggestions on which system. Right now, I've seen these:

1. WAC Linear+
2. Juno Trac 12
3. TechLighting Trak StraightLine

TechLighting seems to have the biggest selection of fixtures, but also looks the most expensive. So far I'm liking the Juno system the best. The costs seems reasonable (except for the transformers, which seem expensive).

One issue I'm very worried about is glare. I see Juno has a line of lenses for some of their fixtures that reduce glare and alter the beam patterns. Is there a glare an issue with the lights being (relatively) low as they would be in a Cliff May?

Anyone got other ideas for living room lighting?
Stephen Meade
SoCal Realtor - DRE 01378749
Pacific West Assoc. of Realtors President-Elect
http://www.OCModHomes.com
http://www.CliffMaySocal.com
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Cliff May Homeowner

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Lighting

Postby vlopez » Sun Feb 04, 2007 11:14 pm

Stephen,

I was looking into track lighting for the kitchen island and decided on a Tiella kit (also made by Tech) at Lowes. I ended up ordering some longer suspension supports from a supplier to make up for the difference between the beam and the ceiling. They were easy to install and we put them on a dimmer switch, which is definitely a plus.

Luck with your decision.

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Postby Udo Min » Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:26 am

Stephen-
On a recessed lighting note:

www.haloltg.com

Has a few small 3" aperture recessed can lighting options available. They offer an insulation contact housing with only a 5" depth requirement. That way one could still put a layer of poly iso insulation behind the fixture.

Here are a few unfinished install shots with the halo h3 fixture. We still have a few aiming issues with the beam spread of the line voltage MR16 lamp but think that we can retrofit the housing to get the hot spot a bit higher on the artwork. With a 50 watt lamp installed the light level is fairly nice. Dimming the cans will prolong the lamp life & set the scene for an intimate setting. The fixture ships w/ a glass diffuser that clips in place which smooths out the beam spread very nicely.

Eric



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Stephen
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Postby Stephen » Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:12 am

Eric,

Thanks for the pics. I've looked at the Halo H3 and while I think they're awesome at that pricepoint, the one feature they lack is adjustability. Like you, I have sloped ceilings and the engineer in my says I really need a gimballed mechanism to ensure that downlighting is exactly down. I suppose I could use the adjustable pinhole trim to achieve that, but once you've seen these:

Image

45 degrees of tilt without reducing illumination! But such mechanical beauty comes at a steep price: ~$160/can (without trim) and the non-IC contact housing is 5.5". They say it's designed for 2x6 construction. But I've heard varying opinions of whether it's usable in my 2x6 ceiling if I keep insulation away from it or whether the 0.5" is still way too close to the plywood sheathing.

One thing I noticed in your installation is that with the exposed MR16 bulbs (1st picture) the glare doesn't seem too bad. Is that just an illusion with the camera or in reality are the exposed bulbs at just about eye level acceptable?
Stephen Meade

SoCal Realtor - DRE 01378749

Pacific West Assoc. of Realtors President-Elect

http://www.OCModHomes.com

http://www.CliffMaySocal.com

and

Cliff May Homeowner

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Postby BOXOUTBM » Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:21 am

My House was recently in CA MODERN and we went with a HALO Track System Thoughout the Front room. Very Adjustable and the lighting is Great. WE also went with white so that it blends in with the Ceiling. It creates a Art Gallery type feel. Very clean and non obtrusvie

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THis is the Fixture that we used

Image

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Postby egads » Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:52 pm

Well here's a thread that's right up my alley. BOXOUTBM, no wonder you got rid of the cable, what a crappy install. The cables need to be tight! Otherwise it looks like a clothesline. If you are going to use track, Shephen, do go with one of the miniatures and mount to the side of the beam. I prefer the juno myself as the track is flat sided and less flexible. Important if side mounting. If you can mount the transformers remotely, you can use anyones. There is no need to use the Juno track end mounted electronic ones. Kitchler makes magnetic transformer for lighting that is quite reasonable. Hank's Electrical Supply in Costa Mesa can order the Juno for you.(wholesale) They carry the Kitchler transformers. They are used with their product that is like the Seagull stuff. Both are a kind of track that is a cable mounted into a channel. Mostly used for cove or under cabinet.

I really like the new Halo stuff. (I bet Nora and WAC will have knockoffs soon) It would be perfectly safe to use the H36LVICAT can in an insulated ceiling. (that's what they are made for) For the sloped ceiling, I'd use the 3006 slot aperture trim. That would give the least glare and put the adjustment inside the can. To hit art on walls that the slots for some reason won't do, use the 3009 adjustable gimbal ring. Keep your general down-light on a separate dimmer from the focused art lighting.

A word about MR-16 lamps. They come in 20,35,42,50,75 watts
And beam spreads from 8 degrees to 60. It's amazing how effective an ESX (20 watt 9 degree) lamp can be on a piece of art provided you are far enough away. (with really low energy usage) An EXT (50 watt 10-12 degree) dimmed can sometimes be better. There is even an MR-16 that shoots a rectangular beam (an EZX in 20 watts, there is also a 42 watt version I can't remember the three letter code for. For general down lighting, an EXN (50 watts 38 degree), FMW (35 watts 38 degree) or a FNV (50 watt 60 degree) works well. To light art that a narrow spot doesn't quite cover and a flood is too much, there are 24 degree ones Those are FMT/FRB in a 35 watt and a EXZ in 50 watts. In all cases the cheap imports are imprecise. Ushio, Osram and Sylvania are good middle choices. If you want it perfect and the lamp to last forever, use GE Precise. Pricey, but if the art is worth it, they are. I also use them anywhere it's hard to replace a lamp. With any halogen lamp never touch the inside when handling (you can clean then with rubbing alcohol if you do) Also, when operating them dimmed, occasionally run them a while full bright as this renews the halogen process. Any questions?

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Stephen
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Postby Stephen » Thu Feb 08, 2007 10:32 pm

Stephen Meade

SoCal Realtor - DRE 01378749

Pacific West Assoc. of Realtors President-Elect

http://www.OCModHomes.com

http://www.CliffMaySocal.com

and

Cliff May Homeowner

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Proposed Lighting Plan

Postby Stephen » Thu Feb 08, 2007 10:39 pm

Below is a proposed track-lighting plan. The red represents track and the orange or potnetial lamps. As you can see, I've already got soffit lighting and down-lighting underneath (currently puck lights, but I'd like to upgrade to Halo H3 when I do the wood underneath).

The big wall on the right will have a giant piece of art, most likely the jumbo size from www.md-canvas.com. The track closest is almost directly over the seating area.

Image

For those wondering on the technical side, the power will come from the soffit area where a remote, 120->12V transformer will be located. I will run the 12V output through the ceiling to the track...about a length of 5ft. I could also install it in the ceiling next to the track terminus.
Stephen Meade

SoCal Realtor - DRE 01378749

Pacific West Assoc. of Realtors President-Elect

http://www.OCModHomes.com

http://www.CliffMaySocal.com

and

Cliff May Homeowner

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Postby moderns-r-us » Fri Feb 09, 2007 7:33 pm

When doing remote transformers as you are suggesting, be sure to allow for "voltage drop." The premise is that, at lower voltages the voltage drops off faster with distance than it does at higher voltages. This is why power is distributed cross country a super high voltages and then stepped down at substations and then again at every four or five houses.

Voltage also drops off more with each fixture in a line with low voltage. Thus, the last fixture in the line can appear visibly dimmer than the first fixture.

You might consider feeding you track from two ends with a "dead" elbow isolating the two pieces of track. Also consider using heavier wire to feed each end of the track, which can also reduce voltage drop.

Also note that voltage drop is not an issue when using integral transformers at each fixture.

I also remember the issue of magnetic vs electronic transformers is affected if you wish to have dimmers. One of them can also produce an audible humming noise.
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Postby egads » Fri Feb 09, 2007 11:31 pm

Let me know the lengths involved and I can tell you if it will be an issue. Magnetic transformers are less likely to buzz. The Insteon dimmers can be used with either, provided the electronic one is made to be dimmed. (an electronic one made for lighting would be)

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Stephen
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Postby Stephen » Sat Feb 10, 2007 1:58 pm

Stephen Meade

SoCal Realtor - DRE 01378749

Pacific West Assoc. of Realtors President-Elect

http://www.OCModHomes.com

http://www.CliffMaySocal.com

and

Cliff May Homeowner

egads
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Postby egads » Sat Feb 10, 2007 4:00 pm



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