Long Beach, CA - Cliff May Rancho Listing- Open House

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Vince Messing
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Long Beach, CA - Cliff May Rancho Listing- Open House

Postby Vince Messing » Mon Sep 12, 2005 1:35 pm

OPEN HOUSE SATURDAY, SEPT. 17TH 12:00 - 4:00

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A Clean Slate for Modern Home Enthusiasts! Popular 4 Bedroom Model - 1383 Sq. Ft. (Now An Open 3 Bedroom, 1.75 Bath Floor Plan) with Detached 384 Sq.Ft. Rumpus Room/Office.

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Birch Paneling and Kitchen Cabinets. Western Holley Oven and Range Loof like New, Boomerang Pattern Countertops.

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Open Beam Ceilings. Excellent Location on Quiet Street.
Last edited by Vince Messing on Tue Sep 13, 2005 1:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Joe » Mon Sep 12, 2005 1:47 pm

Wow! Lots of original details, including the birch! I like the placement of the garage too.

Vince, come talk Cliff Mays with us some time. You've been selling them for a while!

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Postby SDR » Mon Sep 12, 2005 4:45 pm

Wow -- Who wouldn't want that?

Maybe just return the floor to its original condition. . ?.

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Postby Synthetrix » Wed Sep 14, 2005 5:14 pm

That's sweeeeeeet Vince. I'll have to keep you in mind when I sell my place. I would love to find a place like that.
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Asking price

Postby 60000MPH » Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:53 am


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Offer

Postby 60000MPH » Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:55 am


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The Price is $719,000

Postby Shari Posey » Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:57 am


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719 is a good value

Postby 60000MPH » Fri Sep 16, 2005 10:50 am

perhaps it will not stay at 719?

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Postby SDR » Fri Sep 16, 2005 5:58 pm

Snap it up, Jason -- this level of Unfukedupness doesn't come by every day. . .!

If the location is doable. . . .?

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Un Fuked Up (ed) Ness

Postby 60000MPH » Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:20 am


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Postby bikeridetony » Sat Sep 17, 2005 8:12 am

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Postby SDR » Sat Sep 17, 2005 8:36 am

"I laugh in the face of danger! Then I hide until it goes away." Bender

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just read the three page

Postby 60000MPH » Sun Sep 18, 2005 12:02 am

discussion on the demise of case study house #20.
My first point is why aren't the Case Study houses all protected????
Back East any old house can get National Trust and Historic status right? All it has to have are a few attributes. And let me tell you people spend millions preserving private homes that are open to tours a few days a month. Literally millions and millions on a Savannah row house with no amazing history other than it is sitting in the middle of Savannah.

I would think that the CS houses here would be getting some kind of protection.

Now I would like to point out to you that if the contractor were using trained restoration mechanics/artisans/tradesmen to dismantle the structure and then use as much of the finishing as possible and replicate where it is not possible, that is a resto. If this is not done it is not a resto. The neutra is termed a rehab, correct?

Now how much of the actual specifications for this rehab call for exactly what was original to be maintained? Specifications of the job mean just that, exactly what is required to complete each and every part of the job exactly as stated in the specification book leaving no room for supposition. This is the legal document. What is the language of the specs for this job???? has anyone taken a gander at the plans that were submitted and approved??? Was this case "study" structure on a watch list? Are the case study houses being actively protected?

Also, if the house is being rebuilt from the ground up in order to maintain the original design for 100 years are the structural members being replaced to meet current local codes? Are they being replaced to insure the design lives on at the same footprint as had been originally designed?

Are the builder and designer of this rehab project striving to retain the original integrity of the original design?

Are the designer-owner-builder all on the same page? What does the client really want? How much will he spend? What is it worth to him? And does the designer make more the bigger the project? Yes. Is the builder doing the same? You betcha.

I wonder where it will stop. They could have cut the original dwelling of case study #20 in half and moved it to another location or to the back corner of the lot for that matter and then built a brand new version of the same house.

Personally if I had the adjoining property I would just do as much as my deep pockets would allow and make it into a guest house/ home office/ zen buddist yoga sanctuary. Then after all the excess millions are spent I would not have to declare it all to the feds come tax time. And what better place to sink dunza these days? SoCal coastal case study houses that have no protection. Yippee. The big man with all the money is king after all.

Now if I only had the 4 million to buy the house I would replace the dry rot and fungus and termite damage and useless columns one at a time. BTW how well did the owner take care of the house anyway? How come the case study houses are not protected? IF they were this major termite and fungus and dry rot could have been addressed long ago.

My house which is a mile from the bailey house has a little dry rot and a little fungus and a little old termite damage and prolly a little carpenter ant and carpenter beetle holes and whatever else and it is doing just fine. Most homes along the coast have these things over time. Here in the Palisades I personally know from researching first hand that we get three kinds of termites here and both kinds of rot and the above mentioned insects as well as an abundance of both kinds of harmful fungus. The key to maintaining a home here is to not let it stay damp and not let the air stay stagnant. The bailey house could have done with a good two or three foot deep french drain all the way around. It could have done with routine inspection of the roof and drainage. Among other things. And please do remove that dry rot please. Cut that sill out and replace. While at it replace the whole sill as one piece with an element that is somewhat more impervious to the occuring damage. Perhaps new methods of proper installation and new well tested materials is the big thing? I tend to think it is.

Also,these McMansions that we loathe would not be so bad if they were built well to begin with. I know they are going to come in handy when the second real depression hits this country. We can cut them all up into duplexes and fourplexes just like it was done by our grandfathers in the last great depression. And come to think of it the great case study houses were just that studies one case at a time. Prefab everyman architecture. It kind of explains itself.

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Postby SDR » Sun Sep 18, 2005 11:26 am

Good questions, all, I am sure. The (sad?) fact, here in the land of the free, is that ownership is everything. A man's home is his castle. We can fret all we want about history, art, posterity etc etc. . .

Preservation, like "case studies," happens one property at a time. If the owner is enlightened, he may decide to "do the right thing" (from our point of view) -- but the means to force him to do so are limited to whatever HPOZ or other legally-enforcable measures are in place, at the time of his assumption of ownership (as I understand it -- there are others on these boards who can speak to this far better than I).

Speaking of replacing rotted sills, etc, one wonders what "This Old House" would do if confronted with a true historical property, where their interventions were confined srictly to preservaton/restoration. (Perhaps they have done such projects, elsewhere.) A current project (see http://www.lottaliving.com/bb/viewtopic ... =cambridge ) is the re-design of an MCM property in Cambridge, MA -- not a case of preservation, obviously !

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Postby egads » Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:08 pm

Hey boys and girls, I thought I would resurrect this thread now that I am about to close on this house. I thought I would already be closed, but nothing records on holidays. It's interesting that this thread went off on a tangent about a Neutra, as I have been passionate about his work since stumbling upon a show at MOMA in the 80s. I also, speaking of Marmol Radziner (the premiere restorers thereof) went out to see their prototype prefab house in Desert hot springs last weekend. Wow! They have a website with great pictures and plans for those interested. As to this Cliff May, I will keep you all posted. What I know so far, is that the garage you see is not original, but added onto the master bedroom end. Big shame there is that the clerestories are lost/blocked on that end. The good news is that there seems to be the original black tile under the carpets. I have only lifted up edges so far. (they won't let you rip it up until it's yours) The original garage in this model/configuration was oriented sideways with a curved driveway. This has been converted to a workshop/office. Currently it has an aluminum window and a pair of slab doors. All the doors and windows in the house itself are original. I guess I should be thankful that the window style air conditioner was installed through a wall. (that is until I price 12' wide rough sawn boards) The kitchen should be in the Smithsonian, and there lies quandary, as I would like a new one. I think it would have been easier to get one of these houses that had a wrong kitchen remodel that I would feel justified ripping out. As it is I have an original kitchen that is incredibly clean with like two drawers. Boomerang Formica sink counter with a really shallow chipped sink. The listing is not exaggerated, the oven does not look like it was ever used. Every burner on the cooktop lights immediately. Only the floor is a horror. I won't really have any money to do anything for a while. I'll be busy landscaping. I get to move everything from my present home as it is being torn down to build......McBeachMansions. In that lovely Mediterranean, Iranian kitch style. God I'm going crazy, I want to rip that carpet up now!

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Postby Tony » Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:27 pm

JCC,

Regarding why the Case Study Houses haven't been protected, the Modern Committee of the Los Angeles Conservancy has been working on a project to designate all the Case Study Houses onto the National Register. I have no idea as to how far that project has gone, but it is a lot of work.

In acuality, being on the National Register is great, but it does not afford the better, though limited, protection of local Designation. Local Designation, in Los Angeles and West Hollywood at least, offer the additional advantage of the possibility of a Mills Act contract with the city. The Mills Act offers, in return for an obligation to maintain the property, both a reduction in property taxes and teh fact that the property will not be reassessed upon sale. These are compelling financial arguments for preservation.

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Postby bikeridetony » Sun Nov 13, 2005 9:42 am

Egads,

I went to the Open House before you bought it. I couldn't believe the kitchen. Amazing. You got a really cool house. I also like the flowers on the toilets (I think that's where they were). So Brady Bunch. I wanted to make an offer but I couldn't bring myself to leave the beach so we bought another Craftsman instead. Someday, I'll get an MCM. Good luck with the rehab!
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Postby Joe » Wed Nov 16, 2005 3:43 pm

That's one of the most original Cliff May homes I have seen in OC. I'd go on a limb to say the exterior color is original. Same as mine in '55. More pics on Messing's site.

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Postby Sienna » Wed Nov 16, 2005 9:25 pm


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Postby egads » Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:40 pm


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Postby roxy500 » Fri Dec 09, 2005 8:05 am



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